July 30, 2024 Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

the ridgeline. The ridgeline 16 is a line at the top of the hill all the way through 17 the eastern portion of the site. This building, 18 Building D, is located to the west of that 19 ridgeline, and all of the drainage coming from that 20 building is directed to the west. There is no 21 building or -- and very minimal grading, if any, 22 over the ridgeline, it's intended to stop at the 23 ridgeline so that there's no change to the existing 24 conditions from the ridgeline to the east down 25 towards Mayfair. So there should be no impact to

10 (Pages 34 to 37) Page 34 1 additional stormwater going to the east. 2 The remainder of the site is part of 3 our stormwater management system. So to -- in order 4 to manage the stormwater in accordance with the 5 state regulations and the West Orange regulations, 6 which are pretty much one in the same, we have four 7 surface basins, one surface basin here, small scale, 8 another small scale on Warner Road, and a small 9 scale and a large-scale basin on either side of 10 Kuzik Drive. In addition to that, we have these 11 darker areas, our porous pavement systems, where the 12 water falls on the pavement, absorbs through the 13 pavement and goes into a gravel storage layer, and 14 we also have roof areas from these buildings going 15 into these porous pavement areas. That way, we can 16 control the stormwater discharge rate, we can 17 recharge into the ground and control -- and meet the 18 discharge requirements. We have two streams that 19 are crossing the site, New Brook tributary and the 20 Canoe Brook, and in each case, the drainage areas 21 will have a reduction in flow in accordance with the 22 state standards, so with the development in place, 23 the stormwater discharge from any frequency storm 24 would have the reduction that's required by the 25 state, it would be less than what it is under Page 35 1 existing conditions. This is subject to a DEP -- 2 this is part of the subject of a DEP permit 3 application that we currently have pending and 4 details of this, in addition to answering the Board 5 engineer's comments, will all be addressed before it 6 is 100 percent finalized. 7 The sanitary sewer for this project is 8 a gravity-flow system that flows through -- through 9 the project from the buildings up on the hill down 10 past the circle to a low point that is just to the 11 west of Building D. Building D also flows down to 12 that, and at that point, we have a small sewer pump 13 station that will pump it up to Bakley Terrace, to 14 the terminal manhole on Bakley Terrace, which is 15 part of the West Orange sanitary sewer system. I 16 want to point out that there is an existing sanitary 17 sewer system that crosses the site that services the 18 condo association, they have a forced main that goes 19 from their pump station across our site and there 20 has been some reported smells associated with this. 21 We are neither modifying or connecting

ndo association, they have a forced main that goes 19 from their pump station across our site and there 20 has been some reported smells associated with this. 21 We are neither modifying or connecting in any way to 22 that existing system. This is a completely 23 independent system that will function on its own. 24 We have a water system associated with 25 this project, which interconnects from Howell Drive Page 36 1 through to Warner and to Kuzik, creating a loop for 2 the project, ensuring sufficient water flow for -- 3 for sprinkler systems in the building, for potable 4 waters for the building, and the sewer and the water 5 that I just described are -- will be part of a DEP, 6 which we will have to work with the local -- the 7 West Orange engineering department to, you know, 8 make the design in accordance with their standards 9 with their, you know, from their existing conditions 10 plans. 11 This is the overall landscape plan. 12 The landscaping, we have a total of 27.85 acres of 13 disturbance and the ordinance requires 212 trees to 14 be provided for every acre of disturbance. In this 15 case, that ends up to 5,904 trees that are required 16 to be replaced on site. One of the provisions in 17 the settlement agreement and in the IH-1 ordinance 18 is that we can provide deer fencing around portions 19 of the site to allow the understory of the 20 vegetation to grow. Currently, the condition of the 21 trees and the forest on site has been classified as 22 poor because the deer have consumed all the 23 understory and it's important that in order to allow 24 it to have a better environmental impact, the 25 understory needs to grow back and that's why the Page 37 1 deer fence was put into this agreement and into the 2 IH-1 zoning ordinance. So we have proposed 33.6 3 acres of deer fence so that the buffer area between 4 the project and Essex Fells and also between the 5 project Building D and the Mayfair area has deer 6 fencing that allows the understory to grow and 7 become more dense and provides a much better buffer 8 and environmental conditions for -- for this forest 9 to remain. 10 So in addition, that -- so that 33.6 11 acre gives us a credit of 7,123 trees, and then in 12 addition to that, all of these small trees -- these 13 trees you see in here lining the road and around all 14 the buildings, we have 279 native trees proposed to 15 be planted on

rees, and then in 12 addition to that, all of these small trees -- these 13 trees you see in here lining the road and around all 14 the buildings, we have 279 native trees proposed to 15 be planted on site. That gives us an additional 16 credit of 279 trees, and if you do the math, it ends 17 up being 1498 surplus trees. So the ordinance 18 requires the 5904 and we provide, not only the 5904, 19 but 1498 additional credits. 20 In addition to the trees, we do have 21 1,013 native shrubs and 2320 native grasses and 22 ground covers proposed throughout the site. 23 In summary, this project has one minor 24 C variance from the IH-1 ordinance. The project has 25 been designed in, I believe, substantial conformance

11 (Pages 38 to 41) Page 38 1 with the settlement agreement and the zoning 2 parameters that are required by the IH-1 zone. And 3 that is my direct testimony, Mr. Chairman. 4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. At this 5 time, ladies and gentlemen, the members of the Board 6 ask questions, then our experts ask questions, then 7 the attorney for We Care will ask questions and then 8 the general public can ask questions. 9 Vice-Chairman Guarino, do you have any 10 questions? 11 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Yes, I do. 12 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Anderson, I have a 13 couple questions -- 14 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: We can't hear 15 you. 16 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: We can't hear 17 you. 18 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Okay. If you 19 want, I'll shout. Okay. 20 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: No. 21 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: Still not. 22 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: Speak up. 23 (Public outburst) 24 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Okay. Mr. 25 Anderson, my questions are related to two things: Page 39 1 Public safety and fire department. Have your plans 2 and dimensions and area specifications, have they 3 been discussed with our fire department? 4 MR. ANDERSON: They have not, we have 5 not had a review from the fire department. We had 6 preliminary discussions a few years back but they 7 have not commented on this current plan. 8 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Okay. Because 9 we need to know, our fire department, are they 10 comfortable with your summations about turn radius 11 in and out of the facility, in and out of the 12 environment, that's something that we need to be 13 comfortable that, you know, they're comfortable 14 with, then we can be comfortable with. 15 My second question, sir -- can 16 everybody still hear me? 17 (Members of the public shout out simultaneous 18 either "yes" or "no.") 19 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: Stand up and 20 talk to us, please. 21 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Anyway, Mr. 22 Anderson, when you talk about sewage, sanitary 23 sewage -- ah, give me this one. 24 (Mr. Guarino switches microphones.) 25 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Is that Page 40 1 better? 2 (Members of the public say "yes" 3 simultaneously.) 4 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Amazing. 5 Amazing. Anyway, Mr. Anderson, talking about waste, 6 you know, waste sewage, have your calculations, the 7 number of increased, you know, sanitary sewage and 8 everything else, have these numbers and 9 qualifications that they needed, have they been 10 discussed with

e sewage, have your calculations, the 7 number of increased, you know, sanitary sewage and 8 everything else, have these numbers and 9 qualifications that they needed, have they been 10 discussed with the Joint Meeting? And if anybody 11 doesn't know what the Joint Meeting is, that is the 12 sewer commission that covers 11 municipalities 13 between the Essex and Union. So sir, I'd like to 14 know, have they been involved in your evaluation of 15 increased sanitary sewage? 16 MR. ANDERSON: Not to date. Right 17 now, we've only discussed it with the municipal 18 engineer and with regard to where it goes and what 19 kind of flows we would anticipate, and the process 20 typically is to get a municipal approval, then to 21 work with the municipal engineering department to 22 get them to sign off on conveyance and then go to 23 Joint Meeting where you would allow or where you 24 would be looking for the gallonage available. 25 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Okay. Have Page 41 1 your numbers and calculations been shared with our 2 township engineer? 3 MR. ANDERSON: We discussed them 4 verbally, yes. 5 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Okay. All 6 right, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. 7 Anderson. 8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you, 9 Vice-Chairman Guarino. Mayor McCartney. 10 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Thank you, Chairman. 11 Mr. Anderson, my questions were similar, that you 12 were talking about the sanitary sewer capacity of 13 Bakley -- 14 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: Speak up. 15 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mayor -- 16 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: Can't hear. 17 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Thank you. 18 Mr. Anderson, my questions were similar 19 to Vice-Chairman Guarino's about the capacity going 20 into the sanitary sewer at Bakley Terrace and, 21 similarly, have the engineers weighed in on that to 22 be sure that the capacity of what you're generating 23 -- our capacity can match what you're generating? 24 MR. ANDERSON: Yes, we have discussed 25 that in detail. There is some concern about

12 (Pages 42 to 45) Page 42 1 capacity but there's really very few as-built plans 2 of the existing West Orange sanitary sewer system, 3 so -- 4 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: We can't hear. 5 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Closer to the mic, 6 please. 7 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Anderson, 8 louder, please. 9 MR. ANDERSON: There's no concrete 10 answer as to the capacity that's available. We have 11 discussed alternates, such as off-peak pumping, but 12 -- so the general process that we go through is we 13 discuss the capacity of the existing system and the 14 gallonage we would be putting into the system and 15 when with the municipal engineer until they feel 16 comfortable that it meets the proper standards where 17 they can sign off on the conveyance part of the 18 application for the sewer extension permit. 19 MAYOR McCARTNEY: And then you would 20 build and maintain that system? 21 MR. ANDERSON: We would build and 22 maintain on site. The off-site, we would be 23 connecting in -- and that would be all of the things 24 I just talked about, the pump station and any tanks 25 needed to -- Page 43 1 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Closer to the 2 microphone. Closer to the microphone. 3 MR. ANDERSON: Closer? 4 MAYOR McCARTNEY: (Mayor nods.) 5 MR. ANDERSON: Okay. So off-site, the 6 sewer obviously still falls under the realm of 7 maintenance by the community. 8 MAYOR McCARTNEY: And the map is not 9 up -- 10 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I'm sorry. 11 MAYOR McCARTNEY: The map is still not 12 up, but I want to -- I know that you do have DEP 13 permits pending and I wanted to see where the 14 wetlands were on that map. Where the wetlands on 15 the map, that was my question. 16 MR. FAGAN: I'll bring that back up. 17 MR. ANDERSON: Thank you. 18 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Joe, can you zoom 19 in? 20 MR. ANDERSON: All right. So these 21 lines here represent the wetlands limits and it's on 22 the inside here, outside, we are not disturbing 23 anything, only at the crossings. It's an odd shape, 24 there's some isolated areas, but these are inter- 25 connected through -- so these are the current Page 44 1 approved-by-DEP wetlands areas, there and then also 2 around here (indicating). And then along the Canoe 3 Brook, there's this odd shape that goes down either 4 side, but we are not going anywhere near those 5 wetlands. 6 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Joe, keep that up a 7 minute? 8 Mr. Anderson, I appreciate all the 9 setbacks, they exceed what

pe that goes down either 4 side, but we are not going anywhere near those 5 wetlands. 6 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Joe, keep that up a 7 minute? 8 Mr. Anderson, I appreciate all the 9 setbacks, they exceed what the township requires, 10 but can you tell me, from the east where that long 11 building is, how far away is that from the steep 12 slope? How many feet is that? 13 MR. ANDERSON: It -- I don't have that 14 information. It's very close to -- it's at the top 15 of the hill, so immediately after -- it levels off 16 at the top of the hill, it's probably 30 feet before 17 it starts pitching down, but we do not disturb any 18 of that area. 19 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Right, and I 20 understand that we do have the new steep slope 21 ordinance and that was put into place after our -- 22 after this Fair Share Housing settlement agreement, 23 so I'm curious to know -- that was a hundred feet 24 away; I'm just curious to know what that variance 25 would be from that steep slope. Page 45 1 MR. ANDERSON: Well, I don't believe 2 it would be a variance because the steep slopes do 3 not apply -- 4 MAYOR McCARTNEY: That's true. 5 MR. ANDERSON: -- to this application 6 -- 7 MAYOR McCARTNEY: That's true. 8 MR. ANDERSON: -- so it meets the 9 requirement of being to the west of the ridgeline 10 and at the ridgeline, as you might imagine, it's the 11 top of a hill and so it goes up and up and then it 12 levels off before it goes down the other side and we 13 stop on the -- well, it's still coming up before it 14 goes over the top. 15 MAYOR McCARTNEY: So -- 16 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: Can't hear you. 17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Anderson, could 18 you repeat that for the public, please? 19 MR. ANDERSON: Yes, I will. So the -- 20 we stop the disturbance for Building D to the west 21 of the ridgeline, and as you understand, at the top 22 of the hill, it goes up on one side, it levels off 23 and then it goes down the other side. So we are 24 stopping before the Center point at the top where it 25 reaches its pique or where it's leveled off, so we

13 (Pages 46 to 49) Page 46 1 are short of that and it is not on the steep slope 2 going down the other side towards the municipal 3 streets to the east. 4 MAYOR McCARTNEY: And can you assure 5 us that even if our current steep slope ordinance 6 does not apply to this, then every precaution would 7 be made to shore up whatever development is here? 8 MR. ANDERSON: Could you -- I didn't 9 hear you, I'm sorry, Mayor. 10 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Well, I -- 11 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: We can't hear. 12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay, okay, I got 13 it. Mayor -- I'm sorry. 14 MAYOR McCARTNEY: My question is: 15 Even if our current steep slope ordinance does not 16 apply to this, would every precaution be made to any 17 development? 18 MR. ANDERSON: Absolutely. 19 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: Oh, yeah. 20 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Thank you. 21 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: Yeah, sure. 22 (Public outburst) 23 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Council President 24 Rutherford. 25 Ladies and gentlemen, I'm trying. Page 47 1 Thank you. Council President. 2 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Thank you, Mr. 3 Chair. Thank you, Mr. Anderson and all of you that 4 are here in person and virtually. I just want to 5 know for the record, Mr. Chair, at 7:13, there were 6 122 people on Zoom. Is that still correct, Mr. 7 Fagan? 122 people. We can see how important of an 8 issue this is. I do have a few questions, some are 9 piggy-backing off of the questions the Vice Chair 10 and Mayor have already asked but I still would like 11 to ask them for additional clarity, and I'm going to 12 go in the order of my notes. 13 So, you have the buffer, particularly 14 with regard to the deer fence, highlighted on the -- 15 on the map that we see. We can see that there is 16 more than 100 feet between each of the buildings and 17 the property lines. Are those buffers undisturbed 18 trees, undisturbed foliage, are you planting 19 anything in there or certainly where the deer 20 fencing is, is that the only thing going in that 21 buffer? 22 MR. ANDERSON: So -- yes, that is 23 correct. So -- here, let me try to show you -- 24 explain the exhibit a little bit further. So -- 25 thank you for turning that light off. The lighter Page 48 1 green color in here is inside that dark line. 2 That's the inside limit of disturbance line. 3 Outside that limit of disturbance line as you go 4 around the site is the existing native forest. So 5 we are not doing anything where

that dark line. 2 That's the inside limit of disturbance line. 3 Outside that limit of disturbance line as you go 4 around the site is the existing native forest. So 5 we are not doing anything where there's -- where 6 there's no deer fence associated with this and 7 there's wetland area, that will remain exactly as it 8 is today, if it's outside the limit of disturbance. 9 Where we propose the deer fence is outside the limit 10 of disturbance by definition, but it's permitted to 11 be placed without calling it "disturbance" by 12 ordinance, and that is just going to allow the 13 trees, the understory, to grow back in these areas. 14 But there's different colors, the darker green for 15 where the understory will grow back, a little bit 16 lighter than that green where it's the existing 17 forest to remain, and the light-color green where we 18 actually are disturbing where it's grass or lawn 19 planted back again. 20 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Got it and so 21 -- I will skip around since we're talking about 22 trees. You stated there are 1,498 surplus trees as 23 a result of this plan. Did I get that right? 24 MR. ANDERSON: I believe so, yeah. 25 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: But that Page 49 1 includes a credit of over 7,000 trees because of the 2 deer fencing. So how many total trees will be 3 replaced with actually trees, not the deer fencing? 4 MR. ANDERSON: We are proposing 279 5 new trees. 6 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: And will -- 7 (Public outburst) 8 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: So 279 will be 9 planted on site. 10 MR. ANDERSON: That's correct. 11 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: And how many 12 are coming down again? 13 MR. ANDERSON: 5,904. 14 (Applause by members of the public) 15 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Have we any 16 understanding -- I understand that you are -- you 17 have a stormwater management plan. 18 MR. ANDERSON: Um-hum. 19 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Have we any 20 understanding of what those what are called hundred- 21 year storms that seem to come every two or three 22 years now, do we have any understanding of what type 23 of impact that amount of water would have with that 24 amount of trees coming down? 25 MR. ANDERSON: We do. It is part of