February 26, 2025, Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

1 of 46 sheets Page 1 to 4 of 115 03/03/2025 06:36:47 AM 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 TOWNSHIP OF WEST ORANGE DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2025 6:30 P.M. RE; PB-24-01 WEST ESSEX HIGHLANDS, INC. BOARD MEMBERS: ROBERT BAGOFF, Chairman JERRY GUARINO, Vice Chairman SUSAN McCARTNEY, Mayor LEE KLEIN WILLIAM WILKES II LEE D. KLEIN, PE PTOE LORI KAPFERER (Alternate 2) JOHN R. CARDOZA (Alternate 1) KEN ALPER SUSAN SCARPA, Council Woman JORDAN RIZZO, Engineer STEVEN MARTINI, Planner JAMILET BAQUERIZO VITE, Board Secretary GENIECE GARY-ADAMS, Zoning Official JOSEPH FAGAN, Zoom Moderator FISHMAN COURT REPORTING AGENCY 89 HEADQUARTERS PLAZA NORTH 4 SPEEDWELL AVENUE, SUITE 1440 MORRISTOWN, NEW JERSEY 07960 (973) 285-5331 - FAX - (732) 605-9391 2 A P P E A R A N C E S :1 2 H U T T , S H I M A N O W I T Z & P L O C K E R , E S Q S . B Y B R Y A N D . P L O C K E R , E S Q .3 B p l o c k e r @ h u t t s h i m . c o m 4 5 9 A M B O Y A V E N U E4 W O O D B R I D G E , N E W J E R S E Y 0 7 0 9 5 A p p e a r i n g o n b e h a l f o f t h e A p p l i c a n t5 6 G A C C I O N E & P O M A C O , E S Q S . B Y D I A N A P . M c G O V E R N , E S Q .7 O N E B O L A N D D R I V E , S U I T E 1 0 2 W E S T O R A N G E , N E W J E R S E Y 0 7 0 5 28 A p p e a r i n g o n b e h a l f o f t h e B o a r d 9 10 B R U C E I . A F R A N , E S Q . 1 0 B R A E B R U N D R I V E11 P R I N C E T O N , N E W J E R S E Y 0 8 5 4 0 A p p e a r i n g o n b e h a l f o f t h e O b j e c t o r , W e C a r e N J12 C o r p . 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 I N D E X O F E X H I B I T S2 3 E X H I B I T D E S C R I P T I O N 4 0 - 5 H Y D R O R E P O R T 5 0 - 6 C D F R O M C O M P U T E R 6 0 - 7 C O L O R I Z E D D I A G R A M 7 0 - 8 C O L O R I Z E D D A - 1 F R O M O B J E C T O R 8 0 - 9 C O L O R I Z E D D A - 2 9 0 - 1 0 C O L O R I Z E D W I T H R E D A R R O W S 10 0 - 1 1 S A M P L E T E S T P I T L O G 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 C H A I R M A N B A G O F F : P B - 2 4 - 0 1 W e s t E s s e x1 H i g h l a n d s , I n c . B l o c k 1 7 9 L o t 3 2 , W a r n e r R o a d . T h e2 a p p l i c a n t i s p r o p o s i n g t o d e v e lo p a 4 9 6 u n i t3 i n c l u s i o n a r y m u l t i f a m i l y r e s i d e n t i a l d e v e l o p m e n t o n a4 v a c a n t 1 2 0 a c r e p r o p e r t y i n t

i s p r o p o s i n g t o d e v e lo p a 4 9 6 u n i t3 i n c l u s i o n a r y m u l t i f a m i l y r e s i d e n t i a l d e v e l o p m e n t o n a4 v a c a n t 1 2 0 a c r e p r o p e r t y i n t h e n o r t h w e s t c o r n e r o f t h e5 T o w n s h ip .6 M r . P l o c k e r , w o u l d y o u l ik e t o p u t y o u r7 a p p e a r a n c e o n t h e r e c o r d .8 M R . P L O C K E R : Y e a h . G o o d e v e n i n g e v e r y b o d y .9 B r y a n P l o c k e r w i t h t h e f i r m H u t t , S h im a n o w i t z & P l o c k e r10 o n b e h a lf o f t h e a p p li c a n t .11 C H A I R M A N B A G O F F : M r . A f r a n , y o u h a v e t h e12 f lo o r , s i r .13 M R . A F R A N : G o o d e v e n i n g , M r . C h a i r m a n .14 B r u c e A f r a n . I ' m c o u n s e l f o r t h e o b j e c t o r , W e C a r e N J .15 W e w i l l b e p r e s e n t i n g t w o w i t n e s s e s t o n i g h t .16 I u n d e r s t a n d t h e d e v e l o p e r s t i l l h a s s o m e w i t n e s s e s t o17 g o , w e ' l l c o m e b a c k , b u t i n t h e i n t e r im w e ' r e g o i n g t o18 s t a r t w i t h o u r w i t n e s s e s . I d o n ' t t h i n k w e ' l l b e t h a t19 l o n g t o n i g h t , b o t h w i t n e s s e s w i l l b e r e l a t i v e l y s h o r t ,20 d e p e n d i n g o f c o u r s e o n q u e s t i o n s f r o m t h e b o a r d , t h e21 p u b l i c a n d M r . P l o c k e r , b u t w e h a v e S e a n W a l s h f r o m22 P r in c e t o n H y d r o is o u r f i r s t w i t n e s s , w h o w i l l b e23 s p e a k i n g t o s t o r m w a t e r m a n a g e m e n t is s u e s a n d w e h a v e24 E m i l e D e V i t o f r o m t h e N e w J e r s e y C o n s e r v a t i o n F o u n d a t i o n25

03/03/2025 06:36:47 AM Page 5 to 8 of 115 2 of 46 sheets 5 who will be speaking on forestry issues and related1 ecological testimony.2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Go right ahead.3 MR. AFRAN: Because Mr. Walsh needs to be4 near Mr. Fagan's setup, we'll sit back here and present5 from over here.6 MS. MCGOVERN: Mr. Walsh, will you please7 raise you right-hand.8 Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the9 whole truth nothing but the truth.10 THE WITNESS: I do.11 MS. MCGOVERN: Thank you.12 S E A N W A L S H, having been duly sworn testifies13 as follows:14 Mr. Walsh, would you just introduce yourself and15 Q. give your academic and professional qualifications -- I16 will repeat that for the record. Is there a second mic17 for Mr. Walsh to use?18 Mr. Walsh, would you please describe for the19 board your academic and professional qualifications and20 associations?21 Hello. I am a professional engineer, been a22 A. professional engineer for about 15 years. I graduated23 Rutgers University with a bioenvironmental degree in24 engineering, a bachelor's, and went back and got a25 6 degree, a master's degree, in civil engineering from1 Rutgers University.2 I'm also the stormwater municipal engineer in3 Susquehanna Stillwater, Reading Township, Peapack4 Gladstone Township and Mendham Township in New Jersey.5 I also review plans for East Vincent Township in6 Pennsylvania.7 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Is your license current in8 the state of New Jersey?9 THE WITNESS: It is current in the State of10 New Jersey, yes.11 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Any members of the board12 have questions or Mr. Plocker?13 MR. PLOCKER: All right. I just, I know the14 board will have some leeway, which they do with all15 witnesses, but the applicants would like to state an16 objection for the record. It is my understanding this17 witness is going to be addressing stormwater design and18 as the board and everybody here is aware, my client did19 receive it's DEP approval, it's DEP permit on November20 15, 2024. We'll listen to what he has to say but it's21 going to be our intention that whatever's going to be22 discussed from this witness tonight is not within this23 boards purview. We have approvals from DEP, if they24 want to take it up with the DEP they can do that,25 7 they've already done than, we were at the Appellate1 Division, so I just wanted to state that and preserve2 that for the record. Thank you.3 CHAIRMAN

t to take it up with the DEP they can do that,25 7 they've already done than, we were at the Appellate1 Division, so I just wanted to state that and preserve2 that for the record. Thank you.3 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: So unless any members4 of the board have any questions, we accept Mr. Walsh as5 a licensed engineer in the State of New Jersey.6 MR. AFRAN: Yeah, I just don't know if Mr.7 Walsh mentioned he's employed by Princeton Hydro.8 That's a further qualification.9 And just in terms of Mr. Plocker's10 objection. I understood he would make that statement.11 It is on appeal and there are three towns that filed an12 initial challenge and may file an appeal and it's our13 contention the board does have an independent duty to14 assure itself that qualifications in this field are met15 in terms of stormwater management. That may be a legal16 dispute but in addition because the developer offered17 testimony in this field it is very proper for us to18 respond.19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Go right ahead, sir.20 I just want to say one thing about the DEP21 A. approving the plan. The Township still has its own22 responsibility to review and approve plans. Make sure23 it meets the local ordinance. The municipal ordinance24 is pretty clear that if something is wrong and it's25 8 missed in the review process the town could be held1 accountable not the DEP. So that's why it's important2 for the town to do an independent review and I know of3 at least one instance where something was missed by the4 planning board, something got built and the town was5 held accountable to make the repairs to the system. So,6 so these things are always more expensive to fix once7 they're built than when they are on paper.8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you.9 Go right ahead, sir.10 MR. AFRAN: Mr. Walsh will present his11 presentation, I may interject occasionally with12 questions.13 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you.14 All right. Thank you very much for your time.15 A. I'm going to try to be as efficient as I can. I16 appreciate it.17 First thing I'd like to talk about is the soil18 logs that were provided as part of the submission19 package. Now, DEP requires soil logs to be performed to20 learn more about the site. They're a really important21 part of the initial analysis part of a project. Soil22 logs tell us important things about the site. It will23 tell us where the seasonal high water table is. It will24 tell us

re a really important21 part of the initial analysis part of a project. Soil22 logs tell us important things about the site. It will23 tell us where the seasonal high water table is. It will24 tell us what the infiltration rates are in different25

3 of 46 sheets Page 9 to 12 of 115 03/03/2025 06:36:47 AM 9 areas of the site and also tells us what the soils are1 underneath the surface. They're an important aspect of2 the project that will limit how you build your design.3 It eliminates how you design because for example the4 seasonal high water table have, all BMP's have to be at5 least two feet above it. What was interesting, and I6 have soil logs on the board here, they identify the7 seasonal high water through two processes. You dig a8 hole and look for water coming out of the ground and9 then also look for something called mottling. Is anyone10 familiar with the term mottling? It's a coloration that11 occur's within the soil. And that can also be used to12 identify the seasonal high water table. What's13 important about that is that the seasonal high water14 table fluctuates on a daily basis based on how often it15 rains, when was the last time it rained, but the16 mottling doesn't change. The mottling is built on years17 and years of the water always changing. So the mottling18 is what can show you truly the seasonal high water19 table. And what's unusual about these soil logs, and20 it's a lot of soil logs for this site, is that there's21 never any mention of mottling, ever. And in the DEP22 manual it explicitly says you should use mottling23 wherever present to identify where there's a high water24 table because, once again, water levels can change every25 10 day. So the chances that you dig a hole when the water1 is at it's highest level is very low. So that's the2 first thing that I want to call into question with some3 of the data presented here. They only state the4 seasonal high water table is where they find water, but5 the odds are they're underestimating where the seasonal6 high water table is and that is our immediate concern7 because that's one of the initial site restraints on how8 deep you make the basin is. If you can't make them deep9 enough you have to make them wide. So they have a big10 impact on your site.11 All right. And just to hammer the point a little12 bit. For example --13 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Afran, if I can ask,14 there's a Princeton Hydro report dated November 15,15 2024, is that what you're referring to? Looking at the16 table.17 THE WITNESS: No, I'm referring to -- I'm18 referring to -- these are the soil boring logs that were19 presented by the applicant as part of

is that what you're referring to? Looking at the16 table.17 THE WITNESS: No, I'm referring to -- I'm18 referring to -- these are the soil boring logs that were19 presented by the applicant as part of their submission.20 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay.21 THE WITNESS: That letter was just a review22 of their submission.23 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I want to be clear for the24 record.25 11 Let me ask you one question. Is there a date you1 Q. can identify so later looking at record we have a2 reference point? A date of the soil logs.3 There's three dates. There's three different4 A. reports they submitted. One is dated April 19, 2021.5 One is dated February 12, 2024. And then the third one6 is dated April 4, 2024.7 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you.8 Some of the designs they presented here are the9 A. bare minimum separation for seasonal high water tables.10 So immediately there's a concern that, you know, if11 they're underestimating the seasonal high water12 elevation. Now, if you went back and looked at the13 mottling you might find that there's not enough space14 since it's already noncompliant with DEP regulations.15 And I would think that the geotechnical engineer who did16 these should provide some testimony as to why mottling17 is absent from any of these reports. It's very unusual.18 I've seen plenty of these, the DEP manual is very19 explicit that it should discuss what mottling is.20 MR. AFRAN: Could I just note for the21 record, a minor point. I think Mr. Walsh is referring22 to mottling as M-O-T-T, not M-O-D, as in David.23 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: The change in coloration24 based on the soil.25 12 MR. AFRAN: Yes. For the record and the1 reporters benefit, it's M-O-T-T.2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: L-I-N-G.3 MR. AFRAN: L-I-N-G.4 MS. MCGOVERN: Okay. Thank you.5 I apologize.6 A. All right. Next I would like to talk about, we7 reviewed all the soil borings to confirm that they did8 have the space necessary for the seasonal high from the9 bottom of the storage basins to the seasonal water high10 table. And unfortunately during our review we found11 they actually missed some of it. In their reports and12 in their plans they do cite some of the borings but they13 don't cite all of them. There are some instances where14 they missed previous reports. I would like to now look15 at Porous Pavement Section 4.16 Could you give me a description as to this17 Q. document?18 So what we're looking at now is

e instances where14 they missed previous reports. I would like to now look15 at Porous Pavement Section 4.16 Could you give me a description as to this17 Q. document?18 So what we're looking at now is the construction19 A. drawings that the applicant had submitted. This is a20 cross section of Porous Pavement 4.21 All right. So you will see they reference22 seasonal high water table at 567 and what they did here23 is they used the report from 2024 to reference the24 seasonal high water table, but if you look back at the25

03/03/2025 06:36:47 AM Page 13 to 16 of 115 4 of 46 sheets 13 previous reports in 2021 you'll find that the seasonal1 high was done at a higher elevation.2 All right. Here at test pit number 10 the3 seasonal high water level is found three feet below4 grade, the surface elevation was 57 -- 573.5 Now, will you show us the other elevations?6 Q. Yes.7 A. This is the location of test pit number 10.8 This is the location of test pit number 10 and9 this is the location of porous pavement number 4. So10 you can see the close proximity to it, but they didn't11 make reference to it in their plans. I think it's12 something they missed, but let me scroll back down now.13 You see here the seasonal high water table based14 on test pit number 10 is in the storage area space, it's15 not down here at 567. Right now this storage basin16 isn't compliant. In fact right now this area here, it's17 called, Clean Storage Bed, this is where the porous18 pavement would hold and retain water. That's going to19 be filled up mostly with seasonal high water table, so20 it's not going to have the storage that the planners21 predicting. The basins going to overflow quicker. Peak22 flows going to come out quicker and it's going to be an23 issue.24 Now, I'd like to point out two more plans. Two25 14 more instances of this. Porous pavement number 6.1 Okay. Again, here they reference two test pits, test2 pits 42 and 43. But what they forgot to do again is3 look at the 2021 plan, it shows a different story.4 There's another test pit, test pit number 4, this shows5 the elevation much higher. Shows it about ten feet6 higher. Actually it's higher than the grade elevation7 they show. So let me --8 Which screen are you showing now?9 Q. Now I'm going to show the plan to show you the10 A. reference points of the test pits and then I'll show the11 soil borings to confirm the elevations.12 This is the location of test pit number 4. They13 referenced -- now, these are test pits 43 and 42. These14 are the ones they reference that show the seasonal high15 water table. The elevation here was 619, test pit16 number 4. Seasonal high water table was found -- sorry,17 got my notes a little confused. Oh no, sorry. I18 forgot, there's an error here on this report.19 Now, it doesn't say seasonal high water table in20 here but the seepage is at two feet. Seepage, that21 means the groundwater is leaking through the

I18 forgot, there's an error here on this report.19 Now, it doesn't say seasonal high water table in20 here but the seepage is at two feet. Seepage, that21 means the groundwater is leaking through the sidewalls22 of the test pit which means you hit the seasonal high23 water table.24 So I would like to revert back to this plan now.25 15 So here, which is a slightly different location1 than the other test pits, but the groundwater is only2 two feet below surface elevation, which is 608. I'll go3 back to show you where the seasonal high water table is.4 The grade elevation is at 50 -- they're calling it 508.5 This profile changes a bit, but right now the seasonal6 high is above the surface of the pavement. Again, the7 storage here in this parking lot is not going to be8 used. It's going to be taken up by the seasonal high9 water table, at least that's what we can tell from now.10 So, again, the basis are going be overwhelmed earlier11 than you think. It's not going to be able to12 infiltrate. Peak flows are going to increase.13 And this is the drawing, as it says on the14 Q. screen, for basin 6 out -- basin outlet structure number15 6, is that correct?16 Yes, it is. And this is where I want to point,17 A. again, on my earlier point, where these are seasonal18 high water elevations that we got from the presence of19 the water. It's not what the mottling was. So these20 elevations can be even slightly higher which would21 exacerbate the problem we've seen already.22 I have one more example here and then I'll move23 on. I'm going to go to basin number 9. All right.24 All right. Basin number 9 it says, seasonal high25 16 water table is at 548, we're at test pit number 6. And1 we're going to go to test pit number 6. This was2 actually 2004 test pits.3 Now, on this report it says the surface grade4 elevation was 574. The water level elevation, that's5 where they're saying they found seasonal high water, is6 eight feet below that, that's 568. The plan here claims7 that it's 20 feet lower than what's found in the grade.8 So once again the seasonal high water table is going to9 be much higher, it's going to fill up the storage area10 of this basin, it's not going hold any water, it's not11 going to detain, it's not going to be able to have peak12 flow elevations. It's going to increase flooding.13 These are three instances where we found that the14 seasonal high