July 16, 2025, Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 71 between two different formations, I even state it in my letter, you get more propensity for surface water to migrate down because of that contact. At the contact zone the rock is always a little less quality and then by adding all that water will actually increase the degradation and wearing of that rock. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Any other questions for Mr. Goll? Please come up. THE PUBLIC: Rachel Klein. So I know that -- did you have a chance to study the whole site or you really just focused on Building D? THE WITNESS: My focus was Building D. THE PUBLIC: Building D. As you go into the woods there's another slope and Building A, I believe Building A is going to be the side of another traumatic slope, not a slope as we are talking about, but because it's on the ridge line of the mountain top would it have behooved them to maybe also do a couple boring studies on the other side of the slope where the other buildings going to sit? THE WITNESS: I don't know if they did or did not. I apologize, I don't have that. I don't know if they did the borings. THE PUBLIC: Do think that would have been --

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 72 THE WITNESS: If it's over a certain height, the building, a specific amount of borings, and that's for foundation design. But I don't know specifics of those borings. THE PUBLIC: Thank you. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. Anyone else from the public have any questions? Please come up. THE PUBLIC: Seth Weileder, 17 Howell Drive. So with regards to Building D, what are you recommending for this slope to be safe and how should this be built? THE WITNESS: Well, like I said, the most simplest, most straight forward is move the building away from that slope and not impact it. THE PUBLIC: If you took away the garage underneath? THE WITNESS: Lessen the excavation. THE PUBLIC: So would new permits have to be taken out in dealing with the water, the environmental issues, new permits have to be taken out with DEP and things like that, if you moved the building? THE WITNESS: If they move it? THE PUBLIC: Yeah. THE WITNESS: Well, yeah. That wasn't the

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 73 focus of my review, but based on my experience in my firm, yeah. They encroach onto those transition areas and wetlands they need to modify. THE PUBLIC: Thank you. A lot of technical terms tonight. Sorry. So in any of your reports do you have a map of where that sewer line is because most of the reports that we have seen in testimony did not show this specific area of Howell Drive in relation to Building D, which is a concern. So do you have a map that shows where that sewer line is? THE WITNESS: Well, the map that was provided to us Langan prepared. It was their investigation plan. I'm not sure, I don't know who the engineer was who did the civil design for the site but on their existing topo maps and the information and property boundaries and easements it does identify the easements, so it is on the plans. So you could see that. THE PUBLIC: I guess I will try to look for that. And I guess the last issue is, what if this does get built the way it is, you did mention in your testimony draining issues. What could be done to resolve some of that? Initially you said there could be

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 74 drainage issues, so what could the developer do to prevent drainage issues if it is built like it's supposed to be as it's being submitted today? MR. PLOCKER: I'm going to object. I believe the witness testified he did not analyze the stormwater runoff. THE PUBLIC: Had said there could be drainage issues. I am wondering what remedy he might suggest to prevent drainage issues if this building, which is 150 feet, 200 feet from our homes on an unstable slope, what can be done by the developer. It's a fair question. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: He didn't testify to stormwater management nor is he an expert. He didn't testify to stormwater management nor is he an expert in stormwater management, so. THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. I actually do work on stormwater management, I just wasn't sworn in tonight for that purpose and I didn't study that as part of this. THE PUBLIC: Fair enough. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Any other members of the public who have any questions of Mr. Goll on his testimony? Please come up and be identified. Seeing none.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 75 Thank you very much. Thank you Mr. Goll. THE WITNESS: Thank you. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Afran. MR. AFRAN: One moment, please. I assume we're not up for a break yet. We're ready to go. Mayor Ed Davis will come back and supplement his testimony from last meeting. There's also a video that was not available at the time, which is now available and that is in Mr. Fagan's collective memory. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You're going to have to authenticate the video, exactly what it is and what you are offering it for. MS. McGOVERN: Whose video is it? THE PUBLIC: It is a video not taken by me. MR. AFRAN: I can explain. The video is not taken by Mr. Davis but reflects the scenes he witnessed and he's going to speak to the actual video demonstration of what he saw. MS. MCGOVERN: That's what -- he just needs a proffer on what the video is about. And this is something that you're going to testify about, you're going to show it first or after? THE PUBLIC: It's up to the board. I would suggest that while the video is playing I will describe

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 76 what you can see or show it and Mr. Fagan can stop it and I will pause occasionally to talk about where it was taken from. MR. PLOCKER: If Mr. Davis -- if Mayor Davis didn't take the video how can he authentic what's in it? MR. AFRAN: Because he was at the scene when it was happening. MR. PLOCKER: You need to be establish that for the record, Bruce. MS. MCGOVERN: Let me just remind you, you were sworn the last time, so you're still under oath. You acknowledge that? THE PUBLIC: Yes. MS. MCGOVERN: Now -- MR. PLOCKER: Just have him walk-through it and establish the authentication. Let him show it but I think the record should be clear. MR. AFRAN: I think what we could then is as he walks through -- MS. McGOVERN: Mr. Afran, can you do that? MR. AFRAN: Let me ask you a general question, Mayor Davis. Were you personally present and witnessing the scene when this took place? THE PUBLIC: Yes, sir. The video was taken December 2023, which is what I talked about the last

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 77 application. I was there myself. The aftermath of that storm, I believe it was the 17th or the 18th of December 2023. The video is taken not during the storm but after the storm. I was there during the storm and also there the next day. So I was there the same day but I did not take the video. It was given to me by a resident. MR. AFRAN: If we need to authenticate the video, the gentleman who took the video is present and is here. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. MS. McGOVERN: We're going to mark this the next exhibit, that would be O-18. We now have it on the website. MR. AFRAN: You said this would be O-18, right? MS. McGOVERN: Right. THE PUBLIC: So pause it one second, please. For this spot the photographer in this case, you can go forward slightly. This is, again, this is a reminder of my testimony last session, this is what I call the retention pond. In that testimony this spot is in West Orange, the person taking the photo is in Essex Fells Country Club in Essex Fells from that site looking up across the retention pond. That retention pond is the very bottom, it's adjacent to Warner Road in West

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 78 Orange. That water you see flowing is entirely in West Orange. The project site is on the other side of that pond. So you're basically looking to the north, roughly northeast, toward the West Essex Highlands Condominium Association. Above that is the project site. Go ahead, please. Stop there for a minute, please. So you'll see in the next 30 seconds or so that the videographer is walking from West Orange -- toward the edge of West Orange towards West Orange/Essex Fells border. So he's walking basically toward Oval Road and you'll see, directly behind these trees you'll eventually see the edges of the detention pond and then you'll see the Canoe Brook which headwaters are at this project site coming from the right to the left into the corner of Essex Fells. So the house you see through the woods, that's Essex Fells. The videographer's in West Orange looking across the border. I believe that house is 163 Oval Road. It's the first or second house in Essex Fells. Go ahead. So, again, you can continue. This is, again, the videographers standing on Oval Road in West Orange and looking up, looking to the north. To the left is Essex Fells, to the right is

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 79 West Orange. Again, that's 163 Oval Road, Essex Fells, that house to the left. What you're seeing is typical of what I described in my testimony in a medium to heavy rainfall. This is after the rain subsides. Back up two seconds to the wooden gate. Right there. That wooden gate I described in my testimony, that's the border of West Orange and Essex Fells. That's Oval Road on both sides of it. So the water, asked by the council -- I'm sorry, by the Planning Board member when I talked about concerns about potential impact on the road washing out and potentially cutting off emergency access, like police and fire, the emergency access through that gate, I think it's controlled by Essex Fells. You see water on the left, you see water on the right, that's the level of the water I referenced. I'm concerned about it, current conditions under a rainstorm that road is under stress and the infrastructure you're seeing, which we will see more detail going forward, is under stress. So that's the impact I'm concerned about. To the left. Again, that's the entrance to Essex Fells Country Club. That's coming from West Orange. All that water on your left that -- stop it. That water, that bridge is on the grounds of Essex Fells

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 80 Country Club. It's a situation, again, Borough of Essex Fells and all the surrounding towns have a direct interest here. The Borough's owned the water utility since 1920, owned the land to the left. Basically right from the foreground, which you see as a golf course is what we consider a well field, roughly 17 acre well field. We owned it since 1920. We maintain it for water purposes. We lease the land to the Country Club. That little bridge you see in the foreground is for golf purposes. The country club built that, it's spanning the Canoe Brook. So the water -- now you're back into West Orange, the project site. You're looking across the Country Club. In the far distance is basically Eagle Rock Avenue and toward Roseland. All right. So just if you go back. Pan to the left. When I talked about the building, we have the Borough of Essex Fells owns on this site, right. A well field. The building you see before you is owned by the Borough of Essex Fells. It's currently a storage building but that is the site. Half that building doesn't exist any more because that's where we're building a PFAS treatment facility that I mentioned. So that's the, currently the three million dollar project, could go up to five million dollars. That's going to be