March 4, 2026, Planning Board Regular Meeting - WEHI Transcript

19 applicant an up or down vote or this time. So let's20 come up with now the issues that we have and then we'll,21 the applicants right here, we'll speak to the applicant.22 That's part of the public process.23 Mayor McCartney.24 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Yeah. My unanswered25

03/11/2026 06:15:33 AM Page 109 to 112 of 136 28 of 54 sheets 109 question was about the replacement plan. Tree1 replacement plan.2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. Tree replacement3 plan.4 MAYOR McCARTNEY: That wasn't really spelled5 out in that Mr. DeFeo report.6 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay.7 Mr. Alper.8 MAYOR McCARTNEY: And it's not in the9 ordinance, or a tree fund.10 MR. ALPER: The, the sanitary sewer through11 the stormwater basin, the water tower question, you12 know, there's more time maybe just get a more concrete13 answer on that. A second road possibility. What am I14 forgetting.15 MS. KAPFERER: The sanitary.16 MR. ALPER: Right. Sanitary. Water and17 sewer. I think, I think those are my main things.18 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Oh, Ms. Kapferer.19 MS. KAPFERER: Yeah, sanitary conveyance,20 like the working township engineer.21 MR. ALPER: Oh, right, the sewer capacity22 for the township.23 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You have to get an answer24 from the township engineer.25 110 MR. ALPER: And to the extent that we had1 conversation about the Canoe Brook, the upper part of2 the wetlands, if there's any, you know, response on3 that.4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Cardoza.5 MR. CARDOZA: This might not be entirely be6 on the applicant, because I think, at least the first7 leg, requires research on our part, but tracking down8 the information on the smell affecting the residents?9 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Yeah, I said that.10 MR. CARDOZA: I understand.11 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I agree. We're going to12 talk to the building department tomorrow.13 MR. ALPER: Not just capacity, but also --14 MR. CARDOZA: Yeah, yeah. But I'm saying15 that because if something, if we are to determine that16 something then responsibility, then a certain amount of17 responsibility rests with the applicant, then we should18 factor that in.19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: As I recall everything is20 draining downwards to Blakely and it's not going up to21 Howell, but it should be, whatever's going on there22 should be addressed.23 MR. CARDOZA: Yes. Yes. At least a24 clarification, because we heard from the residents that25 111 there seems to be a shifting of --1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Yes.2 Okay. Council President Scarpa.3 COUNCILWOMAN SCARPA: I would just like to4 see something that they're going absorb the cost of all5 this infrastructure, stormwater.6 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. I believe that7 anything that the applicant is going to have to do as8 far as

like to4 see something that they're going absorb the cost of all5 this infrastructure, stormwater.6 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. I believe that7 anything that the applicant is going to have to do as8 far as stormwater management is for them. They'll have9 to pay for it.10 COUNCILWOMAN SCARPA: As long as it's11 clearly spelled out.12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay.13 Ms. McGovern.14 MS. MCGOVERN: You know, the board can vote15 on preliminary site plan approval and hold off on final,16 which all of these things that are required can be17 presented, and this way the applicant, if it was18 approved preliminarily, it was approved, they would have19 to satisfy all of these things before final site plan20 would be granted. The one thing that's different that21 you just brought up, is this extra exit situation. So22 that's new, and I think that you have to ask the23 applicants attorney about that in terms of timing. They24 may have made inquiry into that, I don't know. We never25 112 asked for it after 20 something, 30 hearings it's not1 been brought up, as far as I recall. But all of these2 other things would all be required before final site3 plan and what you typically do, and this is not a4 typical case by any stretch of the imagination, is that5 on other cases where CME has written a report that said6 items A, B and C have to be done, the board has granted7 preliminary and final site plan knowing that subsequent8 that the engineers will check those things off before a9 building can begin. So that is an option for the board10 and when things are technical and there are things that11 are complicated, the board can withhold that. And then12 when it is reported to the board that they've satisfied13 all of these things then on notice to the community they14 come back for a final site plan, all though no one wants15 another 30 days of hearing, I know that, but it should16 be a lot -- it would be a lot more circumscribed because17 it would be those items have been completed, the board18 would check on them to see that they were done to your19 satisfaction and that would be a simpler vote. But20 that's your choice, whether you want to hold this off21 because you don't feel as though there's enough here for22 you to vote on, that you want to see these things ahead23 of time, or if you want to bifurcate it in a sense that24 you take vote on preliminary, or if you, this extra25

29 of 54 sheets Page 113 to 116 of 136 03/11/2026 06:15:33 AM 113 street thing is so important at this point that you1 don't even want to get to that point. These are for you2 to discuss.3 MR. CARDOZA: Maybe Mr. Chairman, you can4 just poll the board on the extra street?5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I think we should ask the6 applicants attorney first. If that's the only thing7 that's holding up preliminary.8 MS. McGOVERN: He can't answer that.9 MR. PLOCKER: Yeah, I wouldn't be able to10 answer that now obviously. I have a client11 representative here with me, we don't have any12 professionals. Like Ms. McGovern said, it was the first13 time during the almost 30 hearings that the issue was14 brought up. Or, you know, or even casually mentioned.15 So, I don't think it would be proper for me to respond16 right now, if it's something we're first hearing17 tonight. We appreciate it though. Thank you.18 MR. AFRAN: Mr. Chairman, you can't hear one19 side and not the other.20 MR. PLOCKER: Yes, he can.21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Stop. Stop. Stop. All22 he said was, he can't answer right now. That's okay.23 If you want to say, you can't answer right now too,24 that's okay too.25 114 MR. AFRAN: No, I want to say --1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Stop right there. Stop.2 MR. AFRAN: This is a legal issue.3 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Hang on one second. I4 have to speak to the attorney before you talk over me,5 please.6 What is it in relation to?7 MR. AFRAN: What Ms. McGovern just8 suggested. As a matter of law we do not wish to be seen9 as remaining silent on the idea that these very major10 additional pieces of information can be left for final11 approval, and for one important reason. When12 preliminary site plan approval is granted the applicant13 can start building. These major items need to be known14 now. They are not things that can be left for final.15 If they're not known now they are fundamental elements16 as to feasibility. If you allow that to be done through17 final you're allowing the applicant to start building18 before all this information is known.19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Before you go down this20 roadway, maybe you should hear what -- I'm sorry.21 Go ahead.22 MS. MCGOVERN: A condition can be added,23 that would be that no improvements begin until final24 site plan has been approved.25 115 MR. AFRAN: Well, that's answering my1 question. In other words, but improvements would also2 have to mean

d,23 that would be that no improvements begin until final24 site plan has been approved.25 115 MR. AFRAN: Well, that's answering my1 question. In other words, but improvements would also2 have to mean you're not cutting the forest down, just3 because you got preliminary.4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Before you -- we have5 everything in hand, sir.6 MR. AFRAN: I don't know because7 improvements and tree cutting are not necessarily the8 same.9 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. Then we're in the10 middle of the story.11 MR. AFRAN: Okay.12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Wait for the next chapter13 and then you --14 MR. AFRAN: But it's important for me to set15 this point, because it's an important question. If the16 applicant can get preliminary, then cut down 27 acres of17 trees, that doesn't do much good even though you got a18 final coming. So the question is if --19 MS. McGOVERN: You can't argue anymore about20 this. The board heard your position and they'll make a21 decision.22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you.23 MS. MCGOVERN: You made your point.24 MR. AFRAN: Well, I made my point but it's25 116 important that these things be heard from the parties as1 you're going forward on legal issues.2 MS. McGOVERN: Understood.3 MR. PLOCKER: Chairman Bagoff, may I.4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you.5 Mr. Plocker.6 MR. PLOCKER: Yeah. I could short circuit,7 at least in the short-term. It would be my8 recommendation as the applicant, I know it's up to the9 board, but one of the options that you floated was to10 not have a vote tonight and for us to consider some of11 the things that were mentioned here and we are willing12 to do that.13 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay.14 MR. AFRAN: That would solve my concern.15 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Mine too.16 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you for letting me17 finish. You know, you haven't trusted me the whole18 thing. The whole time here. You got to give me --19 MR. AFRAN: I do trust you, but I have a20 duty.21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I appreciate that, but you22 have to give me the opportunity to be wrong. Okay.23 Thank you.24 MR. AFRAN: I withdraw any rush.25

03/11/2026 06:15:33 AM Page 117 to 120 of 136 30 of 54 sheets 117 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I appreciate that.1 So what I'm going to do is, I'm going to2 poll the board. Okay. I'm going to poll the board.3 I'm going to ask each one of you to say, yes, give the4 application two months to come back, they have the list,5 Ms. McGovern will provided them a list of concerns we6 have. They will come back in two months at a meeting.7 Okay. And we'll go forward from there, unless they8 satisfy things earlier and they will notify the board.9 MS. McGOVERN: Okay. I need clarification.10 Concerns versus site plan issues that would have to be11 satisfied before final site plan. It would be -- what12 we're talking about is the tree plan, the sewer plan,13 these revisions that were required by the experts on14 these subjects you mentioned?15 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Yes.16 MS. McGOVERN: Okay.17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Any additional things that18 could be done beforehand by the reports that were19 provided.20 MS. McGOVERN: Okay. Got it. When you say,21 two months, because there's a lot of people who get22 nervous.23 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Right.24 MS. McGOVERN: To preserve their notice, we25 118 can cary it to our next regular meeting, which is April1 15, like we did once before, where we carried it just2 for our -- and so let's talk about, then you carry it3 again to May, to the May regular meeting, we put it on4 the agenda and then we figure out a time in June where5 we'd advertise if it's going to be special meeting6 or we'll have it at the June regular meeting.7 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Yes.8 MS. McGOVERN: Okay. I just want that to be9 clear. For the applicant and for the opposition, the10 next two months, if the board decides to go that way,11 it'll be carrying it just to preserve notice.12 MR. AFRAN: Exactly like we have done.13 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Correct. Done previously.14 And the meeting where we come back will be in person.15 Okay. Good.16 There will be no comment, there will be no17 additional comments from the public at that meeting.18 MR. KLEIN: Is somebody going to write a19 letter with these things in it or are we going to speak20 it out and he's going to write it down.21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ms. McGovern.22 MR. KLEIN: Write a letter. Like you want23 to go over it now exactly --24 MS. McGOVERN: Okay. Yeah. Let's, you want25 119 the tree replacement plan, is that correct?1 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Yes.2 MS.

ern.22 MR. KLEIN: Write a letter. Like you want23 to go over it now exactly --24 MS. McGOVERN: Okay. Yeah. Let's, you want25 119 the tree replacement plan, is that correct?1 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Yes.2 MS. McGOVERN: I'm not going to write a3 letter, I'm am going to do it now so that everybody in4 the public hears it.5 MR. AFRAN: My only question is, did I hear6 the Chair say, that when we resume in June that there7 will be no comment from the public. That's an8 impossibility. There's are new elements that are being9 added back to the plan. You can't stop the objector or10 public.11 12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Well, they're being13 satisfied. The only thing that's new is the potential14 additional roadway. Everything else are things that15 have been brought up that are being satisfied, correct?16 MR. AFRAN: Well, then I need to preserve17 our position. These are major elements that are things18 of a conditional approval.19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: We're working on it. Give20 us a minute to talk this through.21 MS. McGOVERN: Okay. If this application22 were theoretically granted final -- preliminary and23 final, these items would be submitted to the board24 engineer and when they met the board engineers approval25 120 they'd be checked off as satisfied.1 The board here is going to be working with2 the engineer and if these items are checked off we'll3 get a report form, we're not going to hear testimony, as4 I understand it, but we'll get a report from the board5 engineer as to whether they satisfy those items. The6 only thing left open, as I understand it, would be this7 potential other exit/entrance roadway. I think that8 that that would have to have further discussion.9 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Yeah.10 MS. McGOVERN: Okay.11 MR. AFRAN: That certainly is a different12 issue or position. Just so I am clear, because there's13 a lot of back and forth on the issue. Many of these14 conditions as well, call for the sake of argument, are15 fundamental. Sewer capacity is fundamental on the field16 for them. So I don't think issues like that the board17 can say in June when we hear that report back there can18 be no public comment. So we don't think these can be19 conditions of approval because they're fundamental and20 once the proof that it can be done comes in the public21 has a right to comment.22 MS. McGOVERN: Okay. I'm going to say, why23 don't we see what they come back with and we'll play

re fundamental and20 once the proof that it can be done comes in the public21 has a right to comment.22 MS. McGOVERN: Okay. I'm going to say, why23 don't we see what they come back with and we'll play it24 by ear in terms what opposition there really is.25

31 of 54 sheets Page 121 to 124 of 136 03/11/2026 06:15:33 AM 121 MR. AFRAN: It's my job to preserve --1 MS. McGOVERN: Understood.2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Okay. Good.3 MS. McGOVERN: Okay. So what we need done,4 I'm not writing a letter, we're doing this in public5 because everybody should know, the tree replacement6 plan. If it's already been provided and they just7 missed it, please highlight it for us. If it wasn't8 done with any specificity please provide that.9 The sanitary sewer, in terms of where you're10 laying it out so it avoids the issues that were11 described by our engineer.12 MR. KLEIN: The pipe under the detention13 basin?14 MS. McGOVERN: Right, the pipe under the15 detention basin.16 And the capacity issues. To demonstrate17 that your plan satisfies the capacity needs for this18 development, and how you go about satisfying capacity19 needs. If you have to put in a holding tank or20 whatever.21 The water tower question. If the -- it may22 have already been satisfied with your permit that you23 got, I don't know, but if you could clarify that to make24 sure that we have that.25 122 Whether your engineer can revise the plan to1 redirect the water without going back to DEP to continue2 to keep the wetlands wet in that one area that was3 described.4 And in terms of costs absorbed, I think5 that's already covered under the ordinance. No?6 MAYOR McCARTNEY: The agreement --7 MS. McGOVERN: It would be what?8 MR. PLOCKER: Any off tract contributions9 are limited to the traffic light, that's in the10 settlement agreement.11 MS. McGOVERN: Right.12 MR. PLOCKER: That's in the settlement13 agreement.14 MS. McGOVERN: The off tract improvements --15 MR. PLOCKER: Correct.16 MS. McGOVERN: -- but the internal ones I17 think our engineer sets that. Right, Ryan?18 MR. PLOCKER: That's all on our --19 whatever's on our property we're responsible for20 maintaining at our cost.21 MS. McGOVERN: Right.22 MR. PLOCKER: Absolutely.23 MR. MacNEILL: All on-site improvements are24 on the applicant.25 123 MS. McGOVERN: Are responsible. We can put1 a condition on, but there's not proofs that are needed2 for that.3 MR. MacNEILL: Yeah, and the performance4 bond and inspection fee escrow essentially outlines5 that.6 MS. McGOVERN: Perfect.7 MR. MacNEILL: They don't install the8 project per plan, then they wouldn't get that9 performance bond.10 MS. McGOVERN: And also Council

fee escrow essentially outlines5 that.6 MS. McGOVERN: Perfect.7 MR. MacNEILL: They don't install the8 project per plan, then they wouldn't get that9 performance bond.10 MS. McGOVERN: And also Council President11 you should know that, typically a developer's agreement12 is done on these things and that also includes the13 performance bond and the issues regarding that. So that14 protects the township.15 And the last thing is the potential other16 exit.17 MR. KLEIN: Can you do a straw poll to see18 if that was a good idea. To see if everybody really19 wants that.20 MS. McGOVERN: Right. Right. Okay. That's21 what you're going to be voting on. That's what you're22 going to be voting on.23 MR. KLEIN: Just now to make sure we are a24 majority I guess.25 124 MS. McGOVERN: Okay. But those are the open1 items, so Mr. Klein is calling for a vote just for --2 all right. But otherwise the board and then the second,3 are you doing a second vote to see if want --4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Yes.5 MS. McGOVERN: But we're going to hold off6 on this vote.7 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Yes, we're going to start8 with --9 MS. McGOVERN: All right, you figure it out.10 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Wait, I have a question11 first.12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mayor McCartney.13 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Please. What was just14 stated was that say this sanitary sewer system is15 on-site, is there any responsibility if it goes off-site16 and what's going to happen?17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Well, the borough18 attorney -- the borough attorney. The borough engineer19 has to say, is there enough capacity in the sewer system20 to take whatever's coming off there.21 MAYOR McCARTNEY: That's what I'm saying.22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: There's a certain amount23 of units and I'm sure there's some calculation that the24 engineers have to say, well, based on X amount of human25