July 31, 2024 Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

32 (Pages 122 to 125) Page 122 1 around, usually know who's next to you and... 2 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. Well, for 3 example, I'm looking at the triangular peninsula, 4 bottom right. 5 MR. APPEL: Over here (indicating)? 6 MR. CARDOZA: No. There. 7 MR. APPEL: There. 8 MR. CARDOZA: Right. The edge of that 9 parking space, you know, you see it looks like it's 10 clipping the turn radius, for lack of a better term 11 here. That and the one just across from it to -- 12 yeah. Those both look tight on the ends. That's 13 what I'm looking at. 14 MR. APPEL: I don't have a problem 15 with that. 16 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. 17 MR. APPEL: I mean, I personally don't 18 have a problem with it, but I would defer if people 19 on my team wanted to request to stripe that 20 differently or ask for a de minimus to make that a 21 compact -- 22 MR. CARDOZA: I'm all for striping and 23 any other parking where it makes sense. 24 The -- so to clarify, all parking 25 spaces throughout each underground garage are Page 123 1 assigned? Are there no trees -- 2 MR. APPEL: So except for D, I 3 mentioned that since we didn't have enough to cover 4 the .5 stalls per out -- 5 MR. CARDOZA: Um-hum. 6 MR. APPEL: -- which has to be 7 unassigned so that it can be shared and used for 8 guests. So D, I have a portion of the garage, so 9 over here (indicating), you have a security gate 10 coming into the garage, whereas, let's just say I 11 didn't have enough surface parking, I would have put 12 the security, let's say gate across one side or 13 across over here (indicating) so that a certain 14 position, so a certain portion of the garage in D is 15 open access and the remaining is going to be now -- 16 even though it's open, only the stalls -- let's say 17 you can have one row of stalls that will be 18 unassigned, but the others are going to have numbers 19 and they're going to be assigned stalls so people 20 can't -- 21 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. 22 MR. APPEL: -- can't park there. 23 MR. CARDOZA: Yeah, I'm just 24 wondering. I'm envisioning people having guests, 25 they direct their guests only to -- well, first of Page 124 1 all, they wouldn't be able to get into the garage, 2 right? Is that going to something like a fob access 3 -- 4 MR. APPEL: In -- 5 MR. CARDOZA: -- for a vehicle? 6 MR. APPEL: In this building, it's a 7 fob access so guests wouldn't get there unless a 8 resident came down and brought their fob

fob access 3 -- 4 MR. APPEL: In -- 5 MR. CARDOZA: -- for a vehicle? 6 MR. APPEL: In this building, it's a 7 fob access so guests wouldn't get there unless a 8 resident came down and brought their fob down to get 9 them in. 10 MR. CARDOZA: Yeah. Because I'm -- 11 I'm also envisioning some type of kind of rush- 12 loading situation, maybe people don't want to park 13 in their assigned spot because they need to move 14 something quickly so I'm just wondering about an 15 open spot, that's my question, but you've answered 16 it. 17 MR. APPEL: The most accessible spots 18 are going to be the assigned spots; I couldn't see 19 you not wanting to take your own spot. 20 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. When it comes to 21 the tandem parking, how common is this? 22 MR. APPEL: I'm going to say probably 23 80 percent of the garage jobs we do have -- have 24 some tandem spots -- 25 MR. CARDOZA: In New Jersey? Page 125 1 MR. APPEL: Yes, actually, New Jersey, 2 New York and Pennsylvania. 3 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. Because I'm also 4 envisioning just -- well, first, I guess, the tandem 5 spots, the way you envision assigning them, each 6 tandem spot will belong to a multiple-room unit, so 7 -- so what I'm getting at is, do you see a scenario 8 where people not living in the same unit are sharing 9 a tandem assignment -- 10 MR. APPEL: That's already been worked 11 through. 12 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. 13 MR. APPEL: We've checked -- we've 14 actually looked at that and that's one of the 15 reasons why we actually have a couple of extra 16 spots, because we've made sure that balancing act is 17 working well. 18 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. And the way you 19 explained it earlier is, you know, if you had a 20 small garage in a single-family home, you would 21 coordinate moving one out, so this is typically not 22 seen as traditionally messy or dangerous in some 23 way? 24 MR. APPEL: It seems -- it seems to 25 work. I was a little questioning of it the first

33 (Pages 126 to 129) Page 126 1 time we did it and when I see these in operation and 2 the feedback I get from the developers, most of the 3 developers I work with have multiple projects, 4 multiple buildings, so if it doesn't work, they will 5 not repeat it. 6 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. 7 MR. APPEL: And this is one of the 8 things they repeat. 9 MR. CARDOZA: All right. Okay, so 10 it's just a matter of people being extra cognizant 11 as they back up as to not scrape or damage the other 12 car. 13 Yeah, I think I'll end my questioning 14 for now, I may have some for the traffic engineer, 15 but thank you. 16 MR. APPEL: Thank you. 17 MR. PLOCKER: Chairman Bagoff, may I 18 just address a point raised by Mr. Cardoza? 19 I just wanted to point out, you 20 mentioned about potential uses for the dog area. 21 I'm just reading from the ordinance and it includes 22 the option for an on-site pet service that you'll be 23 permitted to offer walking services, pet-sitting 24 services, a pet spa or grooming service, overnight 25 boarding or related services. Page 127 1 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. 2 MR. PLOCKER: So all of those uses are 3 listed in the ordinance. Obviously, the final 4 version of this is not determined at this time. 5 MR. CARDOZA: Terrific. Thank you 6 both. 7 MR. PLOCKER: Thank you. 8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: At this time, we're 9 going to have a ten-minute bio break. 10 (Recess taken) 11 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: 9:18, back on the 12 record. 13 Mr. Wilkes, you're up, sir. 14 MR. WILKES: Thank you, thank you. My 15 two colleagues have asked some great questions that 16 I got some answers to, but for the underground 17 parking -- 18 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: We can't hear 19 you. 20 MR. WILKES: For the underground 21 parking, we have -- is that going to be level or is 22 that going down into a ramp, to go into the 23 building; how is that set up? 24 MR. APPEL: Generally level. It's 25 building by building. It's generally level, but Page 128 1 there will be some adjustments, you know, as needed, 2 you know, getting the grade married into the 3 building. 4 MR. WILKES: Okay, so -- 5 MR. APPEL: But it'll be subtle, it's 6 not going to be this... 7 MR. WILKES: Right, it's not going to 8 be severe. 9 MR. APPEL: Correct. 10 MR. WILKES: But that's the only 11 building that's going to have the underground is D. 12 MR. APPEL: Oh, no, all the -- all the 13 buildings are planned in a similar, you have 14

R. APPEL: Correct. 10 MR. WILKES: But that's the only 11 building that's going to have the underground is D. 12 MR. APPEL: Oh, no, all the -- all the 13 buildings are planned in a similar, you have 14 basically -- 15 MR. WILKES: Right. 16 MR. APPEL: -- they're all built into 17 the hill. 18 MR. WILKES: Okay. Now, is there any 19 other connections between the buildings, 20 underground, underneath? They're all separate, 21 right? There's no way to connect and go underneath? 22 MR. APPEL: Except for the -- A has an 23 A-1 and an A-2 so it's under -- on a common podium, 24 you've got two buildings, and D is a common podium 25 with two buildings -- Page 129 1 MR. WILKES: Okay. 2 MR. APPEL: -- so those are kind of 3 connected, so the lower floors connect and the upper 4 floors don't. 5 MR. WILKES: So the way it's kind of 6 set up, it seems like D is going to be the gyms that 7 have the rooftop. That's going to be more the 8 exclusive, so to speak, by -- I guess by -- 9 MR. APPEL: It wasn't -- it wasn't -- 10 I wouldn't use the term "exclusive." It was 11 intended to capture somebody who wanted to spend a 12 little bit more to have different amenities and 13 features. 14 MR. WILKES: Okay. So that -- but the 15 option to go to that area is going to be open to 16 everybody there, that's what you're saying. 17 MR. APPEL: Of course. Of course. 18 MR. WILKES: So how will they get 19 access? Everybody's going to have a key fob to get 20 access to everybody's building or will they be 21 exclusive? 22 MR. APPEL: No, I think you -- my 23 understanding is you will have access to get into 24 your building and your unit and the clubhouse. 25 MR. WILKES: And the clubhouse.

34 (Pages 130 to 133) Page 130 1 MR. APPEL: Not to go from building to 2 building. 3 MR. WILKES: Right. 4 MR. APPEL: That's normally not done 5 -- 6 MR. WILKES: Right. 7 MR. APPEL: -- but that's an ownership 8 issue. 9 MR. WILKES: Okay. Now, how is 10 storage going to be done for the tenants; do you 11 have any areas of excess storage? 12 MR. APPEL: We do. In the garage, 13 we've carved out any place that we don't need for 14 parking, we've created storage. We've also carved 15 out some limited storage areas and there are some 16 nooks and crannies that we can try and exploit in 17 the future if residents need that space. 18 MR. WILKES: So all residents will 19 have access to that, will have an option to have 20 that? 21 MR. APPEL: My guess is it'll either 22 be a for-purchase or some other -- or first come 23 first serve; I don't know how they'll divvy those 24 up. 25 MR. WILKES: Can you show me on -- can Page 131 1 you show me where that's going to be located at? 2 MR. APPEL: So as a for-instance in 3 here, there's -- you see -- you have like these 4 little kind of spots in here every so often? 5 MR. WILKES: Yes. 6 MR. APPEL: Those are where we have 7 ability to put either a mechanical closet or storage 8 room and then, as I showed on one of the earlier 9 slides, where a parking stall, let's say, has 22 or 10 24 feet in depth where we only need, let's say, 18 11 feet, we can put a little bit of storage container 12 at the foot of the garage door. 13 MR. WILKES: Okay. Will there be 14 separate mailrooms for all of these areas too? 15 MR. APPEL: Each building will have a 16 separate mailroom and separate package room, 17 correct? 18 MR. WILKES: Okay. 19 MR. APPEL: There's no pods on the -- 20 on the, you know, there's no pods around the site or 21 stuff like that; they're in the buildings. 22 MR. WILKES: Okay. That's all my 23 questions right now. 24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Mr. 25 Alper. Page 132 1 MR. ALPER: Thank you. A lot of mine 2 were stolen as well. On the exposed foundation, on 3 the requirement in the ordinance on the exposed 4 foundation, what's the reason for the no more than 5 50 percent requirement? Is that aesthetic or is it 6 something else? 7 MR. APPEL: I'm going to say, 8 originally, that tied into that there were 9 provisions in the code so that the basement would 10 not be considered a story, but, you know, 11 notwithstanding, we don't

MR. APPEL: I'm going to say, 8 originally, that tied into that there were 9 provisions in the code so that the basement would 10 not be considered a story, but, you know, 11 notwithstanding, we don't need to address that 12 portion of the building code because of the way the 13 podium is, we're permitted to have that as a story, 14 so it didn't matter. So it's -- I think that's 15 where that provision came up, and in a perfect 16 world, I would like to grade up, but to do that, I 17 think would be so disturbing to other issues, it's 18 just, you know, it's like be careful what you wish 19 for -- 20 MR. ALPER: Right. 21 MR. APPEL: -- it would end up having 22 retaining walls and more mechanical ventilation and 23 that would end up having sloped entries to -- to the 24 garages and... 25 MR. ALPER: Can we go to the -- I Page 133 1 think the very first rendering is probably a good 2 one for that, that shows the garage area. 3 MR. APPEL: So -- 4 MR. ALPER: Yeah, I think that one is 5 probably the best. I know that this is very 6 subjective, but to my eye, especially the louvers 7 where you can see the cars and more of the grade 8 cover on the bottom, it's much more of a -- like a 9 city look that I think -- as opposed to, like, you 10 know, a suburban township, in fact, a rural part of 11 a suburban township, and I don't know, you know, to 12 what extent that's really, you know, my place to 13 say, but it's -- it just looks a little bit out of 14 place with aesthetics, I think, more than anything 15 else, to my eye, and I don't know if that's because 16 of the proposed foundation or if it's just this 17 artistic treatment of it or if it's something else. 18 MR. APPEL: So I'll explain a little 19 bit of the, you know, the -- these trees are -- are 20 small, so as these trees mature and get larger, 21 there's going to be more screening and buffering. 22 What we wanted to do is the buildings tend to get 23 dirty and get tired looking when you have 24 light-colored or not durable, so we thought that the 25 dark-colored brick down low in the buildings would

35 (Pages 134 to 137) Page 134 1 be very successful in that and would also tie into 2 dark windows and have the remainder of the building 3 be very light and transparent with lots of glass, so 4 that's what our strategy was. Now, where the 5 buildings come down much deeper, what we can do and 6 we have done, not on this rendering, but on some of 7 the architectural elevations, is we've taken some of 8 these dark areas where you have the access, the 9 ventilation access, and actually put vegetation 10 growing inside of it, what I call a green wall, and 11 we've done that where we have the larger exposure, 12 in here. I would say this in here is kind of 13 bordering on whether it's not large enough to do, 14 but we are utilizing that and we've utilized that on 15 a number of places on other building facade, just 16 not in this particular area. 17 MR. ALPER: Do you have an example of 18 what that would look like, the green wall? 19 MR. APPEL: I don't have a colored 20 example, I just have what we -- you know, we're just 21 showing it on the elevation, so it's going to be 22 black and white, I don't think it's going to give 23 you the depiction. 24 MR. ALPER: Gotch ya, but it's 25 especially vegetation growing on the louvers Page 135 1 themselves or... 2 MR. APPEL: Correct. You basically 3 grow -- you grow from the ground up and it grows 4 into and around these -- these kind of illuminate 5 rails. 6 MR. ALPER: Hmm. Does it end up 7 looking like a solid piece of greenery or does it 8 sort of show, like striped? 9 MR. APPEL: No, it's gets pretty 10 solid, solid looking. 11 MR. ALPER: There's a building I pass 12 in Newark sometimes that has a wall that looks like, 13 I always assumed it was fake grass. 14 MR. APPEL: You can do it as natural 15 and you can also do it as synthetic. 16 MR. ALPER: Okay, so it might look 17 like that. I get it. 18 I think my only other question is 19 probably an ownership or a planner question on the 20 trash after the trash is compacted, if that's 21 intended to be moved by a private hauler or by the 22 township. 23 MR. APPEL: Yeah, it's -- most of 24 these buildings are all private. 25 MR. ALPER: Okay. That's all I've Page 136 1 got. Thank you. 2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Would 3 you consider a condition of having a green roof in 4 some of the areas that are open? Where you have 5 greenery on the roof, grass, other plantings. 6 MR.

nk you. 2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Would 3 you consider a condition of having a green roof in 4 some of the areas that are open? Where you have 5 greenery on the roof, grass, other plantings. 6 MR. APPEL: So that's a more 7 complicated question. 8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I like to ask those. 9 MR. APPEL: What I will say right now 10 is that the -- I don't think this is dictated by the 11 settlement agreement -- and by the way, the 12 settlement agreement is quite excessive above code. 13 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I'm not arguing, I'm 14 just asking. 15 MR. APPEL: It's significant, so that 16 would be something I would need to, you know, work 17 through because it's complicated. You have to make 18 the building taller. You have to change the 19 structure. You have to -- there's a lot of 20 components to do that. 21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: We'll put some pots 22 out. We'll put some pots out with green. 23 MR. APPEL: Well, there are -- there 24 are going to be planters -- 25 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. Page 137 1 MR. APPEL: -- but when you're saying 2 a green roof, I'm talking about like where you take 3 the broad area and you put sedum down. 4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Make it partial. 5 You don't have to do anything that you will 6 structurally change, I'm just asking if you could 7 put more greenery, maybe small areas of grassland 8 that's not going to change the structure of the 9 roof. 10 MR. APPEL: I would say Building -- 11 Building -- Building D and also Building A, that 12 amenity deck, and also Building C, the amenity deck, 13 I think all of those as far as, like, I would say if 14 we're free to use potted planters and things like 15 that, I would say you definitely can incorporate 16 that into the -- 17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I'm just going to 18 ask you to come back to us and give us an idea, 19 okay? 20 MR. APPEL: (Mr. Appel nods.) 21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Secondly, how many 22 parking spaces do you have on the total project? 23 76? 24 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: 1070 plus 102. 25 MR. APPEL: I think 1070 plus 102.

36 (Pages 138 to 141) Page 138 1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. 2 MR. APPEL: Is that -- 3 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. And you need 4 966, as I recall? 5 MR. APPEL: 966, and that's without 6 doing the EV credit. 7 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Right. So I'm going 8 to throw this out. Can we get 75 tree islands, 25 9 tree islands in each parking -- in each parking 10 facility? I'm just throwing that out there. And -- 11 MR. KLEIN: It's inside the building. 12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I'm sorry? 13 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: No, there's 14 some surface parking. 15 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Surface parking but 16 take surface parking, like we've done before, and 17 take out a parking space, because they're way above 18 what we need, and make a tree island. 19 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Right, no, I 20 was just clarifying for my colleagues; they thought 21 the parking was all indoors. 22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: No, no, it's outdoor 23 parking. 24 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Yeah. 25 MR. APPEL: So -- Page 139 1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: It's outdoor 2 parking. 3 MR. APPEL: So as long as it doesn't 4 tip the scale to the -- 5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Right. 6 MR. APPEL: So in certain areas, like 7 Building D, I will say that I don't think it's going 8 -- I don't think you have that option -- 9 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Right. 10 MR. APPEL: -- but -- 11 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I'm looking for you 12 to look -- 13 MR. APPEL: Right. 14 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: -- and come back and 15 say "No," "Yes," "Maybe" or "We can do it over 16 here." 17 MR. APPEL: (Witness nods.) 18 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay, Mr. Guarino. 19 Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Appel. 20 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Good evening. 21 Everybody can hear me? 22 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: Yes. 23 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Okay. Okay. 24 Mr. Appel, thank you for your presentation. I have 25 a number of questions. Either yourself and the Page 140 1 traffic engineer, have you both looked at our 2 Complete Streets ordinance and that's part of the 3 Master Plan? Do you know about our Complete Streets 4 ordinance? 5 (Pause) 6 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Okay. I guess 7 not. Okay. 8 MR. APPEL: So -- 9 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Okay. 10 Basically, we look at all our developments and all 11 the members, we're aware of Complete Streets where 12 we make our projects to be as accessible and 13 walkable for the residents and visitors of the 14 township of West Orange. So we want to make sure 15 when you're doing your traffic flows, when you're 16

make our projects to be as accessible and 13 walkable for the residents and visitors of the 14 township of West Orange. So we want to make sure 15 when you're doing your traffic flows, when you're 16 doing your parking, when you're doing the 17 walkability from the main buildings to the 18 clubhouse, to such, and to the kennel, you know, are 19 you taking into consideration the proper 20 considerations of Complete Streets? And we can get 21 you a copy of the Complete Streets, but it's also 22 incorporated into the Master Plan. So that's 23 something we'd like to look at, and when you're 24 doing your walkways and your traffic flows, the 25 traffic engineer would look; everybody that we've Page 141 1 asked, particularly all the major projects we've 2 done in town, they've looked at our Complete Streets 3 and they followed it to the T and it's something 4 that makes it more attractive, makes it more 5 walkable and safe for our residents and safe for 6 drivers and driver traffic. So we appreciate -- 7 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: We're going to get 8 you a copy of that within a week. 9 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: We'll get you 10 a copy of it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 11 Recycling. How is recycling going to 12 be handled within the development? 13 MR. APPEL: So I did discuss that a 14 little bit, is that inside each of the trash rooms 15 on each building -- each floor of each building, 16 there's excess space, there will be bins with 17 shelves and smaller bins with larger toter cans. 18 Residents, they drop their trash in the compactor, 19 they put their recycling in the bins, the super 20 collects the bins, brings it down to the garage, 21 it's stored there, brought out for collection by the 22 hauler. 23 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Okay. So my 24 other question that abuts on that: In the trash 25 chutes, do you have fire suppression?