July 31, 2024 Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

37 (Pages 142 to 145) Page 142 1 MR. APPEL: I believe there's 2 ventilation and there's suppression either in the 3 chute or the room. 4 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Okay. So I'm 5 going to take that down downstairs to the garage 6 level. Is there fire suppression in the covered 7 garage? 8 MR. APPEL: Yes, of course. 9 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Is it -- 10 MR. APPEL: And it's also a three-hour 11 rating. 12 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Okay. Is it 13 wet or dry? 14 MR. APPEL: Typically dry. 15 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Okay. 16 Secondly -- lastly, bicycle racks, you know, people 17 are getting into bicycling with Complete Streets 18 will there be plans to put bicycle racks throughout 19 the development? 20 MR. APPEL: We are showing bike racks 21 inside the garages. I don't believe they're on the 22 site. 23 MR. ANDERSON: No. 24 MR. APPEL: Okay, so I don't think 25 there are any on the sites, although, as you're Page 143 1 mentioning this, we probably should find a place 2 near the clubhouse, but other than that, we find it 3 better to put it under the garage. 4 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Okay. No, 5 that's very good. And another question is, it may 6 sound crazy, but I didn't see anywhere or -- is 7 there a central laundry facility or each unit has 8 its own laundry -- 9 MR. APPEL: Every -- I may or may not 10 have mentioned that -- 11 MAYOR McCARTNEY: You did. 12 MR. APPEL: -- is that every unit has 13 their own washer/dryer, affordable and market. 14 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: That's all. 15 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Appel. 16 MR. APPEL: Thank you. 17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mayor McCartney. 18 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Thank you, Mr. 19 Chairman. You used the word materially similar and 20 I was using the word indistinguishable so I was 21 pleased to hear that the affordable units are 22 basically indistinguishable from all the other 23 units, but I do have a question about that. The 24 square footage of these units, can you tell us what 25 that is? The square footage -- I'm asking the Page 144 1 square footage, an average, for a one-bedroom -- 2 MR. APPEL: You're talking about for 3 the -- you're talking about specifically for the -- 4 MAYOR McCARTNEY: In general. 5 MR. APPEL: -- for the COAHs, for the 6 affordable? 7 MAYOR McCARTNEY: In general. 8 MR. APPEL: So the -- so the 9 affordable units right now is -- the requirement, 10 per your settlement agreement, is a one-bedroom

for the COAHs, for the 6 affordable? 7 MAYOR McCARTNEY: In general. 8 MR. APPEL: So the -- so the 9 affordable units right now is -- the requirement, 10 per your settlement agreement, is a one-bedroom is 11 650 square feet; we are providing 738 square feet. 12 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Okay. 13 MR. APPEL: A two-bedroom is 875 14 square feet, per the settlement agreement, we're 15 providing 1150 square feet, and a three-bedroom is 16 1150 square feet and we are providing 1220 square 17 feet. 18 As far as at market units, if you can 19 bear with me one moment... 20 (Pause) 21 MR. APPEL: I'm going to give you a 22 little bit of a range -- I'm going to give you a 23 little bit of a range in here and the reason I'm 24 giving you a range is because with all the jukes and 25 jogs of the building and balconies and cutbacks and Page 145 1 everything, there's a lot of diversity in the size 2 of the units, but on the market units, a one-bedroom 3 will be roughly between 800 and 900 square feet, a 4 one-bedroom plus den, approximately 1,000 to 1200 5 square feet; a three-bedroom den is -- I'm sorry, a 6 two-bedroom would be 1200 to 1300 square feet; a 7 two-bedroom plus den would be 1500 to 1750 square 8 feet; a three-bedroom would be 1690 to 1850 square 9 feet; and a three-bedroom plus den, 1735 to 2225 10 square feet; and while I gave you an exact range, 11 there's a little bit of a range on the affordables 12 -- 13 MAYOR McCARTNEY: I understand. 14 MR. APPEL: -- as well, but they're 15 all hovering above that minimum requirement. 16 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Thank you. Do you 17 know or do you have what moderate income and low 18 income is? 19 MR. APPEL: I don't have those -- 20 those numbers. You're talking about the UHAC 21 numbers. 22 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Yeah. 23 MR. APPEL: I don't have that. 24 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Okay. So on View 1 25 here, I know you said it was an artistic rendering,

38 (Pages 146 to 149) Page 146 1 it really looks like a real picture because it looks 2 like the sun is -- the sun is up after a rainfall, 3 so it really looks like this exists already, I think 4 this was an interesting aesthetic to show this, this 5 type of picture. What immediately caught my 6 attention, though, is the railing on the balcony. 7 We heard about safety. That actually serves as a 8 ladder for young children. I don't know if you want 9 to take that into consideration. 10 MR. APPEL: We will look at that. We 11 would -- I will be more concerned on the, uh, on the 12 public spaces where, uh, where I think it's more 13 critical, but we will take that into, uh, into 14 account -- 15 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Thank you. 16 MR. APPEL: -- when we're fine-tuning 17 that. 18 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Thank you. And 19 similarly to -- Mr. Alper asked you a question about 20 the -- on that same -- if you could zoom out again. 21 Yeah, where the garages are. 22 MR. APPEL: Um-hum. 23 MAYOR McCARTNEY: So when I first saw 24 this image, it did look very industrial to me and I 25 thought those were metal grates, so I was glad that Page 147 1 you clarified that those are more louvered and you 2 could add greenery to that. 3 MR. APPEL: They're almost like -- 4 they're actually made by the same companies that do 5 the railings, so they're -- so they're considered, 6 they're railings, and we have a lot of latitude, we 7 can make them look like anything. 8 MAYOR McCARTNEY: They did look 9 industrial to me as well. 10 Could you go to 4.4 C? 11 MR. APPEL: Oh, that's the -- that's 12 the section? 13 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Here we go. Thank 14 you. So this came up last night, we were talking 15 about the slope, and can you tell us what that 16 distance is from the -- from the ridgeline? 17 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: Could you 18 repeat, please? 19 MAYOR McCARTNEY: I was asking what 20 the -- how many feet from the building to the 21 ridgeline. 22 MR. APPEL: So that varies because of 23 the way the building and the ridgeline is situated. 24 At some points, it -- so I'm going by Building D. 25 At one corner, it starts off at 25, then it goes to Page 148 1 85 are then to 66, then to 24, then to 22, then up 2 to 43, and then the closest spot is there's one 3 corner that's a pinch point and that's seven feet -- 4 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Um-hum. 5 MR. APPEL: -- and then it goes to 32 6 and then 41. 7 MAYOR

hen up 2 to 43, and then the closest spot is there's one 3 corner that's a pinch point and that's seven feet -- 4 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Um-hum. 5 MR. APPEL: -- and then it goes to 32 6 and then 41. 7 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Because of all the 8 different angles? 9 MR. APPEL: It's because of the way 10 the building's situated and -- but those are -- 11 those are the numbers. 12 MAYOR McCARTNEY: So in the same -- 13 MR. APPEL: And those are kind of 14 approximate, those are scaled off the -- off the 15 drawing. 16 MAYOR McCARTNEY: And it is level 17 here. In the same view here, are those trees 18 existing or is that proposed? 19 MR. APPEL: That's part of the 20 existing, uh, the existing trees in there. 21 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Okay. And so if 22 these are rental units, is the -- is there a fee, a 23 separate fee, for parking? I understand in other 24 municipalities, when there are units like this, the 25 renters do not like to pay the extra rental fee and Page 149 1 they end up parking out on the street. Is that 2 something that you can address? 3 MR. APPEL: I -- 4 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Is the parking 5 included in the rent? That's the question. When 6 it's separate, we're finding other municipalities 7 complain about people not paying the extra fee and 8 parking on the street. 9 MR. APPEL: Well, there's no -- 10 MAYOR McCARTNEY: On the road. 11 MR. APPEL: In this case, there's no 12 street parking, but the surface parking. 13 MR. HOFFMAN: Can I speak, Brian? Can 14 I answer that? 15 MR. PLOCKER: Yeah. I have an owner 16 representative, if we just can -- you can swear him 17 in and he can address the mayor's question, if 18 that's appropriate, Mr. Chairman. It would be 19 related to this question only. 20 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Go ahead. Swear him 21 in. 22 MR. PLOCKER: Okay. All right, I'd 23 like to call Mark Hoffman. 24 MS. McGOVERN: Mr. Hoffman -- you want 25 to give him a microphone?

39 (Pages 150 to 153) Page 150 1 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Good evening, Mr. 2 Hoffman. 3 MS. McGOVERN: Put your name on the 4 record and spell your last name, please. 5 MR. HOFFMAN: Mark Hoffman. 6 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Spell your last 7 name, please. 8 MR. HOFFMAN: H-O-F-F-M-A-N. 9 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you, sir. 10 M A R K H O F F M A N, owner representative, is 11 duly sworn/affirmed by the Board attorney. 12 MR. PLOCKER: Thank you, Mark. You 13 heard the mayor's question about parking. 14 MR. APPEL: Yes. 15 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Can we just say who 16 Mark Hoffman is for the record? 17 MR. PLOCKER: Oh, I'm sorry, Mark, can 18 you please identify yourself? 19 MR. HOFFMAN: Sure. I'm a partner 20 within the Garden Homes organization, I'm 21 principally responsible for the design, development, 22 construction of the project that's being presented 23 this evening. 24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 25 MR. PLOCKER: Okay. And Mark, did you Page 151 1 hear the mayor's question about whether residents 2 would be required to pay for parking? 3 MR. HOFFMAN: Yes. 4 MR. PLOCKER: Okay. Could you please 5 address that one question? 6 MR. HOFFMAN: Sure. Typically, 7 they're not required to pay for parking and 8 residents are assigned spaces within the community. 9 There are times, and I don't think that'll happen 10 here, where individuals that don't have cars might 11 not have to -- 12 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Um-hum. 13 MR. HOFFMAN: -- they might get a 14 decreased rent or something of that nature but we 15 really don't have that issue here because we won't 16 have street parking and based on the location of the 17 development, you know, no one's really going to have 18 an opportunity to park anywhere but in a parking 19 space near the building. 20 MR. PLOCKER: Okay. Thank you, Mark. 21 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Thank you, Mr. 22 Hoffman. Thank you. 23 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you, Mr. 24 Hoffman. 25 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Mr. Appel, one more Page 152 1 question about, you referred to the amenities in the 2 different buildings. 3 MR. APPEL: Um-hum. 4 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Can you elaborate on 5 that? Is it an amenity like a game room; is it a 6 workspace area? 7 MR. APPEL: So you're talking about 8 other than the clubhouse -- 9 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Yes. 10 MR. APPEL: -- in Building D. 11 MAYOR McCARTNEY: In the buildings 12 themselves. 13 MR. APPEL: So, typically, that would 14 be kind of a club room, so just a lounge or

se -- 9 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Yes. 10 MR. APPEL: -- in Building D. 11 MAYOR McCARTNEY: In the buildings 12 themselves. 13 MR. APPEL: So, typically, that would 14 be kind of a club room, so just a lounge or sitting 15 area. 16 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Um-hum. 17 MR. APPEL: It's only Building D that 18 will have its own gym. 19 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Right. Okay. Let 20 me just check. I think that's it. Thank you very 21 much. 22 MR. PLOCKER: Thank you. 23 MR. APPEL: Great. Thank you. 24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Klein. 25 MR. KLEIN: Good evening, Mr. Appel. Page 153 1 I just want to talk about Building D a little bit. 2 The length of Building D, I thought I saw some 3 numbers, like one piece was 200 feet and 400, then 4 another 2. Isn't that like 800 feet long, roughly. 5 Yeah, I think it's that the lower portion I don't 6 know if you can zoom in enough to see them, but it 7 just seems like it's going to be difficult for 8 emergency people to get around the building if they 9 have to rescue somebody from the second floor 10 balcony or something like that? 11 MR. APPEL: So you have access along 12 one entire side of the building, plus your two end 13 caps. 14 MR. KLEIN: Right. 15 MR. APPEL: So you do have limited 16 area to come around. You can see the buildings in 17 there, the legs are wrong. On the elevation used, 18 the buildings look longer because we didn't -- we 19 made true elevation each side, so it makes the 20 building look a little bit longer than it really is, 21 but at least it gives you an accurate pictorial 22 representation of each piece of facade. But the 23 code is interesting with -- with fire safety, is 24 that we are fully conforming in here and actually 25 over-conforming, but you actually get credits for

40 (Pages 154 to 157) Page 154 1 additional street frontage, so I can build the 2 building bigger by having excess street frontage, 3 but let's say a building like an urban building that 4 was on here, usually only has one side rather than 5 three sides. We have three sides exposed. 6 MR. KLEIN: But there's no road on the 7 -- on the ends, is there? 8 MR. APPEL: Well, there's parking 9 access so that you can -- you can -- you can 10 traverse around the building. 11 MR. KLEIN: So a fire truck can get -- 12 MR. APPEL: No, no, no, not a fire 13 truck. 14 MR. KLEIN: That's what I was asking. 15 MR. APPEL: But you would never bring 16 a fire truck next to a -- next to a building -- 17 MR. KLEIN: Right, it would be too 18 close -- 19 MR. APPEL: Yeah. 20 MR. KLEIN: -- to the fall zone, 21 right. So how would they rescue somebody? They'd 22 have to carry the ladder around to the back of the 23 building -- 24 MR. APPEL: It would be -- 25 MR. KLEIN: -- if they had to. Page 155 1 MR. APPEL: It would be carrying a 2 ladder -- 3 MR. KLEIN: Okay. 4 MR. APPEL: But you gotta remember 5 that this is a building with -- 6 MR. KLEIN: A sprinkler, right. 7 MR. APPEL: -- an area of refuge, a 8 sprinklered building -- 9 MR. KLEIN: Okay. 10 MR. APPEL: -- with elevators, so -- 11 MR. KLEIN: Okay. 12 MR. APPEL: Multiple stairs. 13 MR. KLEIN: All right. Even though 14 it's in black and white, can you pull up the image 15 that shows what these green walls will look like? 16 MR. APPEL: Let me see if -- 17 MR. KLEIN: I'm just curious. Because 18 you don't want to block the louver with green 19 because then you'll block the 50 percent open space 20 for the -- 21 MAYOR McCARTNEY: Ventilation. 22 MR. KLEIN: -- ventilation. 23 MR. APPEL: Right. So we have them 24 shown on the back portion of this building, I 25 believe -- Page 156 1 MR. KLEIN: So those -- 2 MR. APPEL: You see these areas over 3 here (indicating). 4 MR. KLEIN: So that tall one -- so the 5 floor -- 6 MR. APPEL: One, two -- 7 MR. KLEIN: Where's the floor of the 8 garage? 9 MR. APPEL: You have one, two, three. 10 So the floor of the garage here is you have a 11 portion that has two levels of garage in here and 12 that's why you have more -- more exposure. 13 MR. KLEIN: Oh, okay. 14 MR. APPEL: So if you go to the -- if 15 you go all the way to the end, you see you have a 16 garage level and then a lower garage level. 17 MR.

u have more -- more exposure. 13 MR. KLEIN: Oh, okay. 14 MR. APPEL: So if you go to the -- if 15 you go all the way to the end, you see you have a 16 garage level and then a lower garage level. 17 MR. KLEIN: Oh, okay. So there is a 18 ramp inside. 19 MR. APPEL: No, no, it just has 20 different access -- 21 MR. KLEIN: From the front and the 22 back, okay. 23 MR. APPEL: They're not connected 24 inside except vertically with stairs and elevator. 25 MR. KLEIN: So the green to your, Page 157 1 let's say, next to the -- 2 MR. APPEL: These are elements over 3 here. 4 MR. KLEIN: They don't block any 5 elevation. 6 MR. APPEL: We use taller -- no, you 7 can have the ventilation typically behind them but 8 where this is below ground level, these are the 9 areas that we're going to need to mechanically 10 ventilate. 11 MR. KLEIN: Oh, okay, okay. 12 MR. APPEL: Because we just couldn't 13 get enough of those. On the upper level, we can be 14 conforming; on the lower level, we can't. 15 MR. KLEIN: And I don't know, I 16 probably should have asked this of Mr. Anderson, are 17 there sidewalks along any of the roads A, B, C, D? 18 MR. APPEL: I think there were 19 sidewalks and I think Mr. Anderson had described 20 that there was one place that he hopped to the other 21 side to align with -- 22 MR. KLEIN: Okay. 23 MR. APPEL: -- other sidewalks -- 24 MR. KLEIN: Okay. 25 MR. APPEL: -- but there's sidewalks

41 (Pages 158 to 161) Page 158 1 around the whole community. 2 MR. KLEIN: Okay, good. That was it. 3 Thanks. 4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Council President 5 Rutherford. 6 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Thank you, Mr. 7 Chair, and I want to thank my colleagues for asking 8 so many questions, some of which I won't have to ask 9 him. 10 So since we're on this slide, the 11 greenery for the louvers, so is the entire wall 12 green or is it just the louvers? Does it go up from 13 the ground? 14 MR. APPEL: So imagine that you have 15 planting that starts in the ground and then there's 16 a hole here (indicating) or a recess in the facade 17 and you have a grid work of power-coated aluminum, 18 and that the -- the plants grow -- 19 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Greenery will 20 grow around it. 21 MR. APPEL: -- up and into the -- into 22 the spaces and it just creates a -- like almost a 23 translucent green feel to the facade. 24 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Got it. 25 MR. APPEL: It's actually very Page 159 1 attractive. 2 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: I understand. 3 So some of this may be redundant and I do apologize 4 in advance, but back to the tandem stalls. So -- 5 and I want to thank my colleague for asking the 6 question, but I was a little unclear on the answer. 7 So for the tandem stalls for parking, will the two 8 stalls -- the two spots that are in tandem, will 9 they be assigned to the same unit? 10 MR. APPEL: Single unit, correct. 11 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Okay. Is 12 there any material separating the stalls, even if 13 it's not every single stall? 14 MR. APPEL: There's not -- 15 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Structural 16 columns. 17 MR. APPEL: There's structural columns 18 typically every three parking stalls. Other than 19 that, they're right next to each other. 20 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: All right. 21 You talked about EV spots, EV stalls in the garage, 22 and I know there's some on the exterior as well. I 23 was a little unclear on your testimony. Is it a 24 total of 15 percent of the -- how many -- what is 25 the percentage of -- Page 160 1 MR. APPEL: 5 percent initially. 2 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Right. 3 MR. APPEL: -- so that's going to be, 4 it's going to start off needing 5 percent of your 5 overall parking count, and then an additional 5 6 percent phases in as make-ready stalls to phase in 7 and another 5 percent after that, so -- 8 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: So over what 9 period of time

5 overall parking count, and then an additional 5 6 percent phases in as make-ready stalls to phase in 7 and another 5 percent after that, so -- 8 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: So over what 9 period of time will they be phased in? 10 MR. APPEL: I think he said three 11 years? 12 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: So each year, 13 you're going to do an additional 5 percent? 14 MR. APPEL: I'm not a hundred percent, 15 I think it's three years. 16 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: All right. In 17 the building itself, are there any recyclable 18 materials used? The actual structure of the 19 building. 20 MR. APPEL: So there's a lot of 21 materials that will have recycled content and 22 there's a little bit of that discussion in the 23 settlement agreement as well. So we will comply 24 fully. 25 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: I think they Page 161 1 need you to talk into the mic. 2 MR. APPEL: Oh. I'm sorry. 3 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Unfortunately, 4 these mics don't work when you're right on them. 5 MR. APPEL: So the settlement 6 agreement has, to my understanding, has some 7 provisions for green materials, so we will, where we 8 can, utilize recycled content materials. 9 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: You said you 10 weren't going to go through the full certification 11 process. Can you describe for me what you would 12 expect your -- and by that, I'm talking about the 13 LEED certification or the other types of 14 certification for -- 15 MR. APPEL: Energy Star or -- yeah. 16 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Can you 17 describe for me what or is it possible for you to 18 describe for us what this would be similar to? Is 19 it gold standard? Is it platinum? Is it green? 20 You know, I don't -- is it possible to -- based on 21 what you're incorporating into the -- into the 22 building, and you gave plenty of testimony about 23 that, is it possible to estimate what it would be 24 equivalent to? 25 MR. APPEL: I -- I couldn't do that