August 14, 2024 Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

Page 1 TOWNSHIP OF WEST ORANGE PLANNING BOARD SPECIAL MEETING __________________________ : IN THE MATTER OF: : TRANSCRIPT : OF PB-24-01 : PROCEEDINGS WEST ESSEX HIGHLANDS, INC.: BLOCK: 179, LOT: 32, : ZONE: IH-1 : __________________________: WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 14, 2024 TOWNSHIP OF WEST ORANGE 66 MAIN STREET WEST ORANGE, NJ 07052 COMMENCING AT 6:38 P.M. BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: DR. ROBERT BAGOFF, Chairman JERRY GUARINO, Vice Chairman MAYOR SUSAN McCARTNEY (arrived when noted) BILL RUTHERFORD, Council President (arrived when noted) KEN ALPER LEE D. KLEIN, P.E., PTOE JOHN R. CARDOZA (Alternate #1) ALSO PRESENT: JAMILET BAQUERIZO VITE, Board Secretary JOHN J. HESS, P.E., P.P., Consulting Engineer GERALD M. HAIZEL, P.P., Consulting Planner GENIECE GARY-ADAMS, Zoning Official JOSEPH FAGAN, Zoom Moderator STENOGRAPHICALLY REPORTED BY: MICHELE QUICK, CCR, RMR, CRR NJ Licensed Court Reporter (VIA Zoom - listen mode only) Magna Legal Services 866-624-6221

2 (Pages 2 to 5)2 (Pages 2 to 5) Page 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S: 2 GACCIONE POMACO, P.C. 3 1 Boland Drive West Orange, New Jersey 07052 4 BY: DIANA POWELL-McGOVERN, ESQ. Attorneys for the Board 5 6 HUTT, SHIMANOWITZ & PLOCKER, P.C. 459 Amboy Avenue 7 Woodbridge, New Jersey 07095 BY: BRYAN D. PLOCKER, ESQ. 8 bplocker@huttshim.com Attorneys for the Applicant 9 10 BRUCE I. AFRAN, ESQ. 10 Braeburn Drive 11 Princeton, New Jersey 08540 Attorney for Objector, We Care NJ Corp. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 4 1 (Zoom meeting begins at 6:38 p.m.) 2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: ...August 14, 2024 3 at 6:30 p.m. Notice of this meeting was given to 4 the township clerk and posted on the township 5 bulletin board and township website calendar and 6 sent to the West Orange Chronicle and The Star 7 Ledger. This meeting has been properly noticed to 8 the public in accordance with the Open Public 9 Meetings Act. No new matters will start after 10:30 10 p.m. 11 May I ask everybody to rise for the 12 Pledge of Allegiance. 13 (The Pledge of Allegiance is recited.) 14 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Please 15 be seated. The next regular Planning Board meeting 16 will be held September 4, 2024 at 7:30 p.m. via 17 Zoom. Roll call, please, Jamilet. 18 MS. BAQUERIZO VITE: Mr. Alper? 19 MR. ALPER: Here. 20 MS. BAQUERIZO VITE: Mr. Cardoza? 21 MR. CARDOZA: Present. 22 MS. BAQUERIZO VITE: Mr. Klein? 23 MR. KLEIN: Here. 24 MS. BAQUERIZO VITE: Mayor McCartney? 25 (No response) Page 3 1 I N D E X 2 APPLICANT'S WITNESSES: SWORN 3 LAURANCE APPEL, P.A. 7 4 5 BOARD'S WITNESSES: 6 JOHN J. HESS, P.E., P.P. 5 7 GERARD M. HAIZEL, P.P. 5 8 9 10 EXHIBITS MARKED INTO EVIDENCE 11 NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE 12 A-3 Foundation Exposure Exhibit dated 13 8/14/24, prepared and presented by Mr. Appel 8 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 5 1 MS. BAQUERIZO VITE: Mr. Morgan? 2 (No response) 3 MS. BAQUERIZO VITE: Mr. Wilkes? 4 MR. WILKES: Here. 5 MS. BAQUERIZO VITE: Council President 6 Rutherford? 7 (No response) 8 MS. BAQUERIZO VITE: Mr. Guarino? 9 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Here. 10 MS. BAQUERIZO VITE: Chairman Bagoff? 11 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Here. Thank you. 12 Would you swear in the township 13 professionals, Ms. McGovern? 14 J O H N J. H E S S, P. E., P. P., Consulting 15 Engineer, is duly sworn/affirmed by the Board 16 attorney. 17 G E R A R D M. H A I Z E L, P. P., Consulting 18 Planner, is duly sworn/affirmed

overn? 14 J O H N J. H E S S, P. E., P. P., Consulting 15 Engineer, is duly sworn/affirmed by the Board 16 attorney. 17 G E R A R D M. H A I Z E L, P. P., Consulting 18 Planner, is duly sworn/affirmed by the Board 19 attorney. 20 MS. McGOVERN: Thank you. 21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Two housekeeping 22 things. I incorrectly previously stated this is an 23 overlay zone. This is not. This is an actual zone 24 in the Township of West Orange. 25 The second thing is, somebody had asked

3 (Pages 6 to 9)3 (Pages 6 to 9) Page 6 1 a question about the deer fencing and it led people 2 to comment that no matter what, the application was 3 a foregone conclusion and the Board has concluded. 4 We have not. The deer fence will only be put up if 5 the application is approved. If the application is 6 not approved, there will be no deer fencing. Please 7 make that clear in your minds, okay? 8 And I would ask if anybody has 9 questions, please contact our Board attorney. Thank 10 you. 11 Application PB 24-01, West Essex 12 Highlands, Incorporated, Block 79, Lot 31, Zone 13 IH-1, Warner Road. The applicant is proposing to 14 develop a 496-unit inclusionary multifamily 15 residential development on a vacant 120-acre 16 property in the northwest corner of the Township of 17 West Orange. 18 For the applicant, Mr. Plocker. 19 MR. PLOCKER: Hi. Good evening, 20 Chairman Bagoff and Board members. Brian Plocker 21 from the firm of Hutt, Shimanowitz & Plocker on 22 behalf of the applicant, West Essex Highlands, Inc. 23 Just a couple of housekeeping items. 24 Our court reporter requested that she be able to 25 transcribe via Zoom tonight. It is much clearer on Page 8 1 the scene, I believe it was Mr. Haizel, the Board's 2 planner, that had asked for some kind of 3 demonstrative exhibit regarding the bulk variance 4 that we're seeking regarding exposure of the 5 foundations. Is that your recollection? 6 MR. APPEL: Yes. 7 MR. PLOCKER: Okay, and did you 8 prepare such an exhibit? 9 MR. APPEL: Yes. 10 MR. PLOCKER: Okay, I'll let you take 11 it away. 12 MR. APPEL: Hello, everyone. The 13 exhibit that was prepared today that is dated 14 8/14/24, it includes seven sheets, and the seven 15 sheets should -- what should we be tagging this? 16 MS. McGOVERN: A-3. 17 MR. APPEL: A-3? Okay. 18 MS. McGOVERN: What are we going to 19 call this, Mr. -- is it a PowerPoint? 20 MR. APPEL: I will call it a 21 Foundation Exposure Exhibit -- 22 MS. McGOVERN: Okay. 23 MR. APPEL: -- if that's clear. 24 MS. McGOVERN: Sure. 25 MR. APPEL: So I will -- Page 7 1 the Zoom, apparently, than in the room, so I did 2 talk to Ms. McGovern today and she said that would 3 be acceptable. I'd just like to confirm with Mr. 4 Fagan that Ms. Quick, our reporter, is on the Zoom. 5 (Mr. Fagan, Zoom Moderator, confirms that Ms. 6 Quick is attending via Zoom.) 7 MR. PLOCKER: Okay, thank you very 8 much. That

confirm with Mr. 4 Fagan that Ms. Quick, our reporter, is on the Zoom. 5 (Mr. Fagan, Zoom Moderator, confirms that Ms. 6 Quick is attending via Zoom.) 7 MR. PLOCKER: Okay, thank you very 8 much. That being said, I believe we last left off 9 with our architect, Larry Appel. He had finished 10 his initial testimony, took questions from the Board 11 and the Board professionals. Mr. Appel is here 12 again tonight and I would like to call him for some 13 additional testimony, after which the Board, the 14 professionals and the public can ask their 15 questions. 16 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Go right ahead. 17 MR. PLOCKER: The applicant calls Mr. 18 Appel. 19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You know you're 20 still under oath, for the record. 21 THE WITNESS: Yes. 22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay, thank you. 23 L A U R A N C E A P P E L, P. A., was previously 24 sworn/affirmed by the Board attorney. 25 MR. PLOCKER: Mr. Appel, just to set Page 9 1 MS. McGOVERN: And you'll send that to 2 our Board -- or you already did send it to the Board 3 secretary? 4 MR. APPEL: Yes, I did. 5 MS. McGOVERN: So Jamilet, in the 6 records that we have, this will be marked as A-3. I 7 think that was our next -- our next number. 8 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: I'm sorry, is 9 that A, for apple, 3? 10 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Yes, apple 3. 11 MS. McGOVERN: Applicant, A for 12 Applicant, yes. 13 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Say that again for 14 the people in the back, Ms. McGovern. 15 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: (Inaudible) 16 MS. McGOVERN: Speak up or turn it 17 off? 18 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: Or lower it. 19 (Many members of the public speaking at 20 once...inaudible) 21 MS. McGOVERN: All right, we'll be 22 louder until they can figure out if they can turn it 23 down. Okay. 24 MR. APPEL: All right, can everyone 25 hear me all right?

4 (Pages 10 to 13)4 (Pages 10 to 13) Page 10 1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Yeah. 2 MR. APPEL: Okay, great. 3 (Whereupon Council President Rutherford 4 joined the meeting.) 5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Hang on one second. 6 Let the record show Council President Rutherford 7 joined the Board. 8 MR. APPEL: So on this exhibit, we 9 have taken each of the elevations from the Planning 10 Board set and we have appended a blue line and that 11 blue line is across here (indicating), and that blue 12 line represents the line of conformance with the 13 ordinance. So there was a metric of 50 percent of 14 exposure and we had -- Mr. Anderson, during his site 15 testimony, had explained that due to grading 16 conditions and not having walls, that -- and there's 17 a lot of changes in topography, that the exposure on 18 some of the buildings varies and was triggering 19 above that 50 percent, so what we're showing in here 20 is that this line, if this is conforming, then what 21 is below the line between this line and grade is, 22 um, is what the relief that is being requested is, 23 and we explained the whys and the hows, but I think, 24 graphically, this shows more of a picture. And as 25 you can see, as you scroll through all of these -- Page 12 1 where the maintenance building is on the site, which 2 is kind of over where the north arrow is on the, uh, 3 on the map. So these areas have very little 4 visibility, and now I'm going to switch to the last 5 page of the exhibit that is going to show -- what we 6 did is we blew up that area at center where we had 7 the worst of the exposure and put some color on 8 this, and one of the things that we were talking 9 about when we -- on testimony last time was that, 10 where we had these areas that were dropped because, 11 in this particular case, we're exposing a second 12 level of the -- of a garage below the building, and 13 why did we do this? Because it was -- grade was 14 taking us there. It was -- we're putting these 15 buildings on a site that has a bunch of topography, 16 and when we balance off getting all the vehicular 17 circulation to work and all the pedestrian 18 circulation to work, we have to get all the grade to 19 match up or else we're going to end up with a series 20 of retaining walls all over the place, which I think 21 would be worse, so we concentrated on the 22 architecture in here, and in these lower exposed 23 areas, we

e're going to end up with a series 20 of retaining walls all over the place, which I think 21 would be worse, so we concentrated on the 22 architecture in here, and in these lower exposed 23 areas, we started creating -- in the openings that 24 are for natural ventilation, we started creating 25 what we're calling these "green walls," and that's Page 11 1 as you scroll through all of these elevations, 2 there's not an awful lot that is -- that is below 3 that blue line. That blue line, in certain cases, 4 based on grade, is that it creates -- this area, for 5 instance, is Elevation C facing the clubhouse, and 6 I'm going to show a larger version of this because I 7 think it will be helpful to explain how we're 8 addressing this and how we're treating this 9 elevation. 10 So what -- what we have in here is this 11 is the area, that blue line is representative of 12 conforming, and in some cases, when you come to the 13 ends, you can see that there is a broader piece and 14 this is exactly the point that we're making, is 15 that, as the topography changes, there was 16 importance and reason to follow that. 17 Now, some of these areas are exposed 18 and some of the areas are not exposed. So for 19 instance, I'm showing an area for Building A-2 20 elevation. If you can zoom back out, please. And 21 then A-2. These are all keyed in -- these are the 22 end caps of the elevations in here so that you can 23 see. This is Tag 4. So this is on the left side of 24 the building, so the only people that will really 25 see this are residents coming into the building and Page 13 1 what I referred to, where we're taking and growing 2 vegetation up from planters through what would have 3 been just a guardrail to help soften these areas. 4 In addition to that, remember there is 5 -- there are foundation plantings along the building 6 as well as street trees or, I'm not going to call 7 them street trees because this is really an access 8 aisle, but there -- there are trees in here as well. 9 We've drawn these trees semi-transparent as a blend 10 because, in the winter, they're going to have less 11 foliage; in the summer, they will have more, so this 12 was sort of getting you to a place halfway between. 13 And then what -- also another element 14 brought up was about -- one of the Board members had 15 suggested adding tree islands in the parking areas, 16 and I think this

to a place halfway between. 13 And then what -- also another element 14 brought up was about -- one of the Board members had 15 suggested adding tree islands in the parking areas, 16 and I think this would only further, if we're smart 17 on where we place these -- these additional trees in 18 the island, it's only going to provide another -- 19 still another layer of greenery and landscaping, so 20 we have potentially the tree islands in the parking 21 area plus these additional trees at the building, 22 then layered beyond that is the foundation 23 landscaping, and then beyond that in some of these 24 openings is what I'll call "the green wall" or 25 "green facade." And again, this was what we

5 (Pages 14 to 17)5 (Pages 14 to 17) Page 14 1 believed to be one of the worst areas for foundation 2 exposure. 3 I think that was everything directly 4 related to this issue and I think -- I believe 5 addresses the questions raised by the -- by the 6 Board here. 7 MR. PLOCKER: Thank you, Mr. Appel. 8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay, Mr. Klein. 9 MR. KLEIN: Can you go back half a 10 step and just explain? So what's the regulation 11 that you're asking for relief from; can you describe 12 it a little? 13 MR. APPEL: So the metric in the 14 ordinance presents that you're allowed to have -- 15 you have to balance that you can have 50 percent of 16 the foundation is exposed and 50 percent would be 17 buried, and in our case, due to topography, we have 18 certain areas, and I'll go back over here, that's 19 the balancing point there, so just between the blue 20 line down to grade is what we're seeking relief on. 21 Now, every facade looks a little bit different, but 22 that is what we did as a tool in here. These were 23 done in collaboration with the site engineer and we 24 did these exposure calculations for the foundation. 25 MR. KLEIN: So -- so leave that one Page 16 1 MR. KLEIN: Right. 2 MR. APPEL: -- a key plan. So there's 3 certain areas that -- the back side of this 4 building -- 5 MR. KLEIN: Right. 6 MR. APPEL: -- nobody sees. 7 MR. KLEIN: Right. 8 MR. APPEL: This edge of the building 9 in here (indicating), I don't believe anyone will 10 readily see. 11 The area of Building A in here that is 12 exposed, the public would not see that, it's 13 residents or visitors coming to this back parking 14 lot that would see that. 15 Building C, you wouldn't see, really, 16 any issues except for the clubhouse looking back at 17 this building. 18 MR. KLEIN: And from that building 19 right below it when they look, right? 20 MR. APPEL: No, it actually -- kind of 21 the grade picks back up because -- 22 MR. KLEIN: Oh. 23 MR. APPEL: -- this road is climbing 24 back up, so there's a low point over here -- 25 MR. KLEIN: Okay. Page 15 1 up. Are there doors on that side? I see a couple 2 of doors in some places. If you were to bury that 3 -- I'll call it "bury it" -- 50 percent below grade, 4 you couldn't have doors on that side of the 5 building, right? 6 MR. APPEL: Well, it would have 7 required -- we worked closely with the site engineer 8 and we started looking, is that, yes, it

ade, 4 you couldn't have doors on that side of the 5 building, right? 6 MR. APPEL: Well, it would have 7 required -- we worked closely with the site engineer 8 and we started looking, is that, yes, it would have 9 created issues with circulation, it would have 10 created additional retaining walls, it would have 11 also created additional disturbance and coverage to 12 get all this to work, so we did look to try and get 13 it as good as possible, but we felt that this 14 solution was far better architecturally as well as 15 on a -- on a site response than to do retaining 16 walls and wells for doors and all these other 17 elements like that. 18 MR. KLEIN: So around the perimeter, 19 the outside of all the buildings, that's going to be 20 viewed by the woods, that's going to be -- 21 MR. APPEL: Well -- 22 MR. KLEIN: -- shown out to the woods. 23 MR. APPEL: You're absolutely correct, 24 is that -- I'm going to, like -- up here, there's -- 25 you have -- Page 17 1 MR. APPEL: -- and then it slopes back 2 up, so if we looked at that Building C, which is 3 right here, as you can see, that depression then 4 looks back up -- 5 MR. KLEIN: Okay. 6 MR. APPEL: -- and picks up from 7 grade. So it's -- 8 MR. KLEIN: Okay. 9 MR. APPEL: -- dropped over here 10 (indicating) -- I'm sorry, I apologize, dropped over 11 here -- 12 MR. KLEIN: Right. 13 MR. APPEL: -- and then picks back up. 14 MR. KLEIN: Okay. 15 MR. APPEL: So this is the only area. 16 These areas over here, I think are really quite de 17 minimis. 18 MR. KLEIN: I don't want to put -- 19 MR. APPEL: And this is where we did 20 that elevation -- 21 MR. KLEIN: Right. 22 MR. APPEL: -- in this area, because 23 we felt -- we tried to pick the area that was most 24 critical and the worst area to -- to show you how we 25 were handling it.