August 14, 2024 Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

40 (Pages 154 to 157)40 (Pages 154 to 157) Page 154 1 couple questions at the very end that might further 2 elucidate that. 3 All right, and so then protected 4 waterways. Has this plan mitigated the impact of 5 the protected waterways that are present on the 6 site? 7 MR. APPEL: This is part of the site 8 design. There was testimony given the other 9 evening. 10 MS. BENNETT: Has your plan minimized 11 the negative impacts of the protected waterways on 12 the site plan stormwater management? 13 MR. APPEL: We followed the locations 14 that were prescribed on the site plan, so in that 15 respect, yes. 16 MS. BENNETT: Okay. So this body has 17 previously heard an application not dissimilar to 18 this one, a clear-cut of the forest, build on a 19 ridgeline, that had a catastrophic outcome as a 20 result. Are you familiar with the Rogilin 21 (phonetic) project? 22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, ma'am, let's 23 focus on this application -- 24 MS. BENNETT: I am, I'm just asking if 25 he's familiar. If he's not familiar, I can't ask Page 156 1 MS. BENNETT: You were the architect 2 on that project. 3 MR. APPEL: Yes, I was. 4 MS. BENNETT: Okay. And the tandem 5 parking was your idea, correct? 6 MR. APPEL: I don't -- I don't know 7 whether it was my idea or the site engineer's idea 8 but -- 9 MS. BENNETT: And it remedied an issue 10 of parking because there was difficulty with parking 11 on that site. 12 MR. APPEL: I don't recall that there 13 was difficulty. 14 MS. BENNETT: Okay. Do you know of 15 any other location in West Orange that utilizes 16 tandem parking except for the two locations that 17 you're the design professional? 18 MR. APPEL: In West Orange? 19 MS. BENNETT: Yes. 20 MR. APPEL: I'm not familiar. 21 MS. BENNETT: Thank you. 22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 23 Go right ahead. 24 MS. STOLOFF: Jean Stoloff, 25 S-T-O-L-O-F-F, like French fry at the end. Page 155 1 the next question. 2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Great. 3 MS. BENNETT: If he's familiar with 4 the -- 5 MR. APPEL: I'm not familiar with the 6 details of that. 7 MS. BENNETT: You don't know what 8 happened? 9 MR. APPEL: I -- 10 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: The answer is no. 11 Let's move on, please. 12 MS. BENNETT: Okay. 13 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 14 MS. BENNETT: Okay. So -- the Board 15 is familiar with that project. So 555 Northfield, 16 you -- 17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, ma'am, focus 18 on this application, nothing else. 19

BAGOFF: Thank you. 14 MS. BENNETT: Okay. So -- the Board 15 is familiar with that project. So 555 Northfield, 16 you -- 17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, ma'am, focus 18 on this application, nothing else. 19 MS. BENNETT: I am. This architect 20 raised 555 Northfield in the discussion of tandem 21 parking. All I'm going to ask him is about 555 22 Northfield. 23 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: And tandem parking. 24 MS. BENNETT: Correct. 25 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: That's it. Page 157 1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 2 MS. STOLOFF: I'll be brief. 3 Could you go back to the picture in 4 which you described the sidewalks in front of the 5 buildings? 6 MR. APPEL: The sidewalks in front of 7 the rendering? 8 MS. STOLOFF: The other day, you 9 talked about the sidewalks near the buildings. 10 MR. APPEL: It'll be the other... 11 (Site plan is put up on the screen.) 12 MR. APPEL: So is this -- 13 MS. STOLOFF: Yeah. 14 MR. APPEL: Is this the picture that 15 you're -- 16 MS. STOLOFF: Sure. So how wide are 17 those sidewalks in front of the buildings? 18 MR. APPEL: I am not -- I'm not fully 19 sure. I would have to check with the site engineer. 20 MS. STOLOFF: Okay. 21 MR. APPEL: It's either five or six 22 feet. 23 MS. STOLOFF: Okay. And can you 24 describe how the sidewalks from Building A, B, C and 25 D are connected?

41 (Pages 158 to 161)41 (Pages 158 to 161) Page 158 1 MR. APPEL: This is -- this is really 2 a site question, you know, of overall, you know, how 3 the buildings are connected and the site engineer 4 gave testimony of where -- where all the sidewalks 5 and pedestrian circulation is. 6 MS. STOLOFF: Okay, so you're not 7 familiar with -- 8 MR. APPEL: I was not responsible for 9 this -- 10 MS. STOLOFF: Okay. 11 MR. APPEL: -- drawing so I'd be 12 testifying with somebody else's work product. 13 MS. STOLOFF: That's fair. I don't 14 know if he'll be brought up another time, but I just 15 wanted to understand how, especially kids, get from 16 Buildings A, B, C and D around the community. Thank 17 you. 18 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 19 Will you state your name, sir, and 20 spell your last name for the record, please. 21 MR. DUBOVY: Todd Dubovy, D-U-B-O-V-Y, 22 10 Burnett Terrace. 23 I wanted to follow up on a question 24 that I wanted to ask earlier but I was told I could 25 not, with reference to the trees. Since you gave Page 160 1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: -- that's what the 2 applicant -- the applicant has the right to answer 3 the question -- 4 MR. DUBOVY: Yes. 5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: -- if -- if there is 6 testimony to that specific answer. If he doesn't 7 know how much of the tree canopy -- 8 MR. DUBOVY: Then let him say that. 9 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: -- then he can say 10 it. 11 MR. DUBOVY: Well -- 12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: If he does, he can. 13 So the answer is? 14 MR. DUBOVY: Let him answer that. 15 MR. APPEL: This is a site question. 16 MR. DUBOVY: Okay. 17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 18 MR. DUBOVY: Thank you. 19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. 20 MS. WHITE: Good evening. I hope my 21 voice -- 22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Good evening. 23 MS. WHITE: -- is clearer than it was 24 the last time, working on my throat. My name is 25 Barbara White, I live on Howell Drive, directly Page 159 1 testimony speaking to deciding where certain trees 2 would be kept and others would not be, has there 3 been any -- 4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I don't -- I'm 5 sorry. I don't think he provided testimony about 6 keeping trees and that -- I don't -- 7 MR. DUBOVY: He did. He specifically 8 said where location of trees were located on the 9 property relative to buildings. 10 MR. APPEL: I -- I think my testimony 11 was that there were areas that were fenced off and 12 preserved in order to -- 13 MR. DUBOVY: No, no, that --

ocated on the 9 property relative to buildings. 10 MR. APPEL: I -- I think my testimony 11 was that there were areas that were fenced off and 12 preserved in order to -- 13 MR. DUBOVY: No, no, that -- different 14 issue. 15 MR. APPEL: Okay. 16 MR. DUBOVY: My question specifically 17 is whether or not any consideration has been given 18 to how much of the town's tree canopy is going to be 19 reduced by 6,000 trees you're removing. 20 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: If he didn't 21 testify, the answer is no, he doesn't know. 22 MR. DUBOVY: You're going to give him 23 the answer? 24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Well, no -- 25 MR. DUBOVY: That's good. Page 161 1 across from the subject property. 2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Will you 3 spell your last name, please? 4 MS. WHITE: W-H-I-T-E. 5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 6 MS. WHITE: All right. And I'd 7 appreciate it if you could put back up, it was 8 PB-4.4C. My questions are relative to Building D. 9 MR. APPEL: So that's the -- from the 10 first round of sets. 11 (Site plan is put up on the screen.) 12 MS. WHITE: That's it, and I need the 13 blow-up of the corner piece. 14 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: (Inaudible) 15 MS. WHITE: That's it. So if you go 16 to the top of the Building D, I'm assuming that's 17 basically across from Howell Drive; is that correct? 18 MR. APPEL: Over here (indicating). 19 MS. WHITE: Yes, up there. Make sure 20 I'm reading it correctly. 21 So a couple of questions with respect 22 to that. First is something I'd like to know 23 relative to the settlement agreement itself. I 24 already know that you're talking about this building 25 being roughly four feet higher than the others with

42 (Pages 162 to 165)42 (Pages 162 to 165) Page 162 1 the ten-foot ceilings, probably still within your 2 requirements for height, but my question really is s 3 around whether or not the settlement agreement 4 addressed in part or all the proposed rooftop deck, 5 which is both for public access, as you described, 6 in the center of the building as well as private 7 structures that people would reach through their 8 apartments, and that to me, appears to be a de facto 9 fifth story, so my question is: Was it included and 10 was that, again, part of what was taken into effect 11 or not relative to your design? 12 MR. PLOCKER: It's in the ordinance. 13 The ordinance permits rooftop amenities, and then 14 I'll let Mr. Appel answer the question. 15 MR. APPEL: Yeah, and I was going to 16 -- my recollection, and I don't have the ordinance 17 in front of me, but that it did permit rooftop 18 amenities without it being considered an additional 19 story. 20 MS. WHITE: Okay, so with that, if you 21 can, looking at that part where the Howell side 22 faces, that flat face there, what is the height at 23 the highest on that place? That is a place that I 24 will look at from my home, as will many of my 25 neighbors. Page 164 1 or in their backyards, that people living in those 2 buildings would not be able to see our homes. And 3 I'm asking that because there was testimony given by 4 your civil engineer addressing a balloon test, which 5 I understand were never performed, I'm not sure why 6 they weren't performed, which would certainly give 7 us some assurance that if I am in my home or in my 8 backyard, that people would not have purview to the 9 activities there. 10 MR. APPEL: So -- 11 MS. WHITE: And looking at what I see 12 here, nothing tells me, other than whatever trees 13 you decided to draw in, that that privacy would be 14 maintained, especially given the size of those trees 15 relative to the size of the property itself. 16 MR. APPEL: Well, I -- I think that 17 the -- based on the topography as well as the trees 18 in between the house and the building here, provide 19 buffering to the -- to the building itself. 20 MS. WHITE: Okay. If you could then 21 just help me for a second. I'm trying to understand 22 this; I'm not an architect. That structure you have 23 to the right, can you tell me approximately what 24 house on Howell Drive that represents. 25 MR. APPEL:

or a second. I'm trying to understand 22 this; I'm not an architect. That structure you have 23 to the right, can you tell me approximately what 24 house on Howell Drive that represents. 25 MR. APPEL: The corner -- Page 163 1 MR. APPEL: Well, I think what you 2 have to look at in here is that when you look at the 3 edge of the building -- actually, let me do it... 4 MS. WHITE: Is that looking -- 5 MR. APPEL: So -- 6 MS. WHITE: -- onto Howell -- 7 MR. APPEL: So -- 8 MS. WHITE: -- or is that looking 9 down? That's -- 10 MR. APPEL: So this -- this is the 11 section -- 12 MS. WHITE: Um-hum. 13 MR. APPEL: -- right here 14 (indicating) -- 15 MS. WHITE: Okay. 16 MR. APPEL: -- going over toward 17 Howell. So you can see that the building steps 18 down, so the dimension that I gave in prior 19 testimony was measured from the low point in here, 20 not measured to the wedding-cake stepping as it goes 21 farther and farther back. 22 MS. WHITE: Okay. So if I'm reading 23 this correctly, I'm looking at the little dashes you 24 have, it gives the appearance that if I'm sitting in 25 my home, or my neighbors are sitting in their homes Page 165 1 MS. WHITE: Okay. 2 MR. APPEL: And this is an 3 extrapolation just to be diagrammatic. 4 MS. WHITE: Right, and I understand 5 that. So, again, looking at the height of the trees 6 relative to the height of the structure, we are 7 given no assurances that whatever existing trees are 8 there and those would clearly be extremely old trees 9 to have that height, that none of those trees would 10 be moved or removed, because to replace that with a 11 standard tree would not give the privacy that we 12 have been enjoying up until now. 13 MR. APPEL: So the only thing that I 14 can tell you is the site engineer gave testimony 15 that there was a very large area that had preserved 16 trees. I -- I -- 17 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: (Inaudible) 18 MR. APPEL: Outside of that area, as 19 long as there's -- anything that is outside of that 20 property line obviously won't be touched and the 21 area that would be cleared would only be to 22 accommodate the building and grading, not clear- 23 cutting all of that, uh, that growth in there. So 24 what we did with the, uh, with the section was to be 25 as representative as possible.

43 (Pages 166 to 169)43 (Pages 166 to 169) Page 166 1 MS. WHITE: Okay. So -- so with that, 2 I believe that the engineer did testify that the 3 shortest setback on Howell is 106 feet, basically 4 the length of a garden hose. So I'm asking you 5 again, understanding, because I'm not an architect, 6 with this clear-cutting you're referring to, et 7 cetera, et cetera, what will be the visibility of 8 any portion of that building to those of us who 9 reside on that part of Howell, and I have a further 10 question to that once you answer. 11 MR. APPEL: So the reason we did this 12 section was to illustrate to our, you know, the best 13 we could, the representation between the two and to 14 illustrate that this -- this area -- these are new 15 plantings, but once you get away from where you're 16 building, none of this is going to be -- none of 17 that is going to be impacted. 18 MS. WHITE: All right. 19 MR. APPEL: So -- 20 MS. WHITE: So is that a matter of 21 fact or speculation? 22 MR. APPEL: Excuse me? 23 MS. WHITE: Is that a matter of fact 24 that it will not be impacted or is it just your 25 speculation this point -- that they will not -- Page 168 1 that on the real estate values of the existing 2 properties? 3 MR. APPEL: We -- there was no 4 discussion that -- that I've had personally with 5 regard to real estate values, but one of the things 6 that was done is that this building originally was 7 full height and squared off. We worked hard to try 8 and soften all the edges, which were -- we thought 9 was going to be appropriate and respectful to the 10 adjoining residents. 11 MS. WHITE: Okay. 12 MR. APPEL: All those things are -- 13 are not, you know, take time and money and 14 additional construction for us to do, but we thought 15 it was appropriate. 16 MS. WHITE: Okay. Perhaps you can't 17 answer the question but I hope at some point, the 18 Planning Board could, and that is whether or not any 19 consideration was given to any sort of study that 20 might indicate what the potential impact on real 21 estate values would be of having this structure, not 22 even the final structures but perhaps even multiple 23 years of construction, literally across the street 24 from us. Thank you. 25 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Page 167 1 MR. APPEL: I'm -- 2 MS. WHITE: -- disturb that? 3 MR. APPEL: I'm just going -- it's not 4 speculation, this is what's on the site

treet 24 from us. Thank you. 25 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Page 167 1 MR. APPEL: I'm -- 2 MS. WHITE: -- disturb that? 3 MR. APPEL: I'm just going -- it's not 4 speculation, this is what's on the site drawings. 5 MS. WHITE: Okay. I don't know the 6 site drawings, I'm asking. 7 MR. APPEL: But I'm not -- you know, 8 the -- again, this is, you know, you're asking me 9 questions that, yes, I prepared this section because 10 it was appropriate because of the architecture, but 11 I'm following the site drawings and illustrating, as 12 representative as possible, what is on the site -- 13 MS. WHITE: And I -- 14 MR. APPEL: -- plan. 15 MS. WHITE: I feel I have the right to 16 ask these questions because you have submitted this 17 along with your testimony. 18 MR. APPEL: Absolutely. 19 MS. WHITE: So in that same regard, 20 since you know the proximity of that Building D in 21 particular to the larger neighborhoods, when you 22 were given instruction to look at that whole 23 property around the placement of buildings, were 24 there any things that you were told relative to the 25 potential impact of having buildings as close to Page 169 1 MR. PLOCKER: May I have one second, 2 Chairman? 3 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Plocker. 4 MR. PLOCKER: Yeah, just with respect 5 to the last comment about real estate values, just 6 for the record, we are zoned, we are a permitted 7 use, and I appreciate the member of the public's 8 comments, but it is a permitted use. If this was 9 the Zoning Board of Adjustment and we were seeking a 10 use variance, certainly, that type of testimony and 11 expert testimony would be relevant, but it really is 12 not something that this Board should consider. 13 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you, Mr. 14 Plocker. 15 Go right ahead, state your name and 16 spell your last name, please. 17 MS. KLEIN: Rachel Klein, K-L-E-I-N, 18 Howell Drive. 19 That picture that was just up -- I'm 20 sorry, I forgot you -- Mr. Appel? 21 MR. APPEL: Yes. 22 MS. KLEIN: Is that your picture, that 23 design? 24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, speak into 25 the mic.

44 (Pages 170 to 173)44 (Pages 170 to 173) Page 170 1 MS. KLEIN: Sorry. The last picture 2 -- 3 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 4 MS. KLEIN: -- that was just up -- 5 MR. APPEL: Yes. 6 MS. KLEIN: -- that Ms. White -- 7 MR. APPEL: The section. 8 MS. KLEIN: -- was talking about -- 9 MR. APPEL: Yes. 10 MS. KLEIN: -- was that from your 11 design firm? 12 MR. APPEL: Yes. 13 MS. KLEIN: What's that a picture of? 14 Like, what's -- is that Ms. Paul's house? That 15 picture defies reality. So we're just -- we all 16 live there, we know the area; we're just trying to 17 understand what we're looking at. 18 MR. APPEL: The -- 19 MS. KLEIN: So her house has a huge 20 cul-de-sac and the grading is actually a lot flatter 21 in that area. So we're just -- we just don't 22 understand what you're showing us. 23 MR. APPEL: I -- I may -- it's very 24 possible that it may be the house right next to it, 25 but I -- Page 172 1 MR. APPEL: -- the house is here 2 (indicating). 3 MS. KLEIN: So that's Mr. Weisleder's 4 house. 5 MR. APPEL: I apologize, I don't -- I 6 don't know the residents of each house. 7 MS. KLEIN: Is that yours? 8 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: It's Mayfair. 9 MS. KLEIN: It's Mayfair and Estro and 10 that's the grading? 11 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: (Inaudible) 12 MS. KLEIN: No, that's -- 13 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: (Inaudible) 14 MS. KLEIN: No, that -- 15 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: (Inaudible) 16 MS. KLEIN: Is that my house? 17 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: (Inaudible) 18 MS. KLEIN: So is that my house? 19 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: Number 15. It 20 looks like number 15. 21 MR. APPEL: Is it meant to represent a 22 specific house? I don't know the -- I don't know 23 the exact address. 24 MS. KLEIN: My neighbor's house. 25 Okay. So if you actually -- okay, so the grading's Page 171 1 MS. KLEIN: (Indiscernible) 2 MR. APPEL: -- I don't know -- 3 MS. KLEIN: I'm sorry, if we're trying 4 to understand the picture and the design, if that -- 5 if that's -- no, there's no house next to it at all, 6 there's empty lots. There's a huge cul-de-sac 7 between Ms. Paul's house and the first street, and 8 the grading in that specific area is not nearly that 9 steep. So, yeah, we're just a little confused. Is 10 that supposed to be the top of Howell Drive? 11 MR. APPEL: Are you talking about on 12 the cul-de-sac? 13 MS. KLEIN: Yeah, is that the house on 14 the cul-de-sac? 15 MR. APPEL: No. 16 MS. KLEIN: So -- 17 MR.

pposed to be the top of Howell Drive? 11 MR. APPEL: Are you talking about on 12 the cul-de-sac? 13 MS. KLEIN: Yeah, is that the house on 14 the cul-de-sac? 15 MR. APPEL: No. 16 MS. KLEIN: So -- 17 MR. APPEL: No. 18 MS. KLEIN: -- whose house is that 19 supposed -- 20 MR. APPEL: Actually -- 21 MS. KLEIN: -- to be? 22 MR. APPEL: Actually, look at the 23 site, if we can zoom that. So the cul-de-sac is 24 here -- 25 MS. KLEIN: So that's -- Page 173 1 even worse, it's actually exceptionally steep in 2 that area, much, much steeper than your design 3 shows, but at least now we have an idea of what 4 we're looking at. Thank you. 5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. Hello. 6 MS. BENYO: Good evening once again, 7 everyone. 8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Hi. 9 MS. BENYO: Claire Benyo, B-E-N-Y-O. 10 Earlier, there was a series of 11 questions about the decisions that -- and thought 12 process that went into the building placement, and I 13 understand that you can't speak to that 14 specifically, but during that period of time, you 15 mentioned that there were various issues that led to 16 the decisions about where those buildings were 17 placed. I would ask if you could expand on what 18 those various issues were? 19 MR. PLOCKER: Yeah, I would instruct, 20 the site plan that's here is the site plan and 21 that's what this Board needs to evaluate, and Mr. 22 Appel is happy to answer any questions about the 23 designs on that site plan. 24 MS. BENYO: And so the site engineer 25 would be the one to answer those questions?