September 11, 2024 Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

roughfare that this development is impacting. And23 it's not clear who owns it, what's the maintenance plan,24 because we've had issues in the past and now it's just25 167 going to exacerbate it going forward.1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I understand what you're2 saying.3 THE PUBLIC: I'm just trying to ask for4 clarity as part of th application and I don't think I'm5 still getting the full clarity.6 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: We're not getting it7 either, but there's no testimony who owns it8 unfortunately, and as it is a private road and there are9 multiple condo associations there those are the people10 that need to get together and give you the better11 answer.12 THE PUBLIC: Okay. I think we need to get13 that answer before being approved because that impacts14 long-term sustainability for all the residents of West15 Orange in this area.16 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you.17 Mr. Afran.18 MR. AFRAN: Bruce Afran, counsel for the19 objectors.20 Mr. Plocker, I just have a quick question21 for you actually. You were giving an understanding of22 the status of the ownership, you don't have personal23 knowledge of it, I assume?24 MR. PLOCKER: I'm going to make a statement25 168 that it's our -- my clients, upon information and1 belief, that Oval Road is a private road and that's2 going to be the limit of my statement right now.3 MR. AFRAN: Okay. Thank you.4 So Mr. Chairman, I don't think we have a5 witness saying of his personal knowledge, Mr. Plocker,6 is acting in going good faith I understand, but there is7 no actual evidence offered at this point as to ownership8 of Oval Road, is that a fair statement?9 MR. PLOCKER: That is correct.10 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: We agree.11 MR. PLOCKER: And I appreciate the12 clarification.13 MR. AFRAN: I bailed you out, Mr. Plocker.14 MR. PLOCKER: Always appreciated.15 MR. AFRAN: I have just a few questions.16 Mr. Pehnke, I think we know the answer to this17 but you said one thing and I just want to be clear as to18 what you said. You mentioned -- you had mentioned, you19 had said that there were three points of access to the20 site. I assume you meant Warner Road and the two21 emergency entrances and exits, Kuzik and Howell, is that22 correct?23 THE WITNESS: Subject to the approval of24 this board Kuzik Drive would be an emergency access, but25

43 of 71 sheets Page 169 to 172 of 180 09/27/2024 06:14:01 AM 169 yes, they're all considered points of access. So, yes.1 But when you said three points, you meant two2 Q. emergency are anticipated and one day to day appointed3 access?4 That would be the functional use of access5 A. points, yes.6 I wanted to clarify what you meant by three7 Q. points.8 Do you have an understanding of how many people9 are estimated or expected to reside in the project if it10 is built?11 I do not.12 A. Do you know how many cars are slated for13 Q. residents in the plans, assuming this project is built?14 The site is designed as testified by Mr.15 A. Anderson, to provide just north of 1,172 vehicles parked16 on the site. As I testified to the actual parked17 vehicles will be quite a bit less.18 How do you know that if you don't know how many19 Q. people are expected to live in the site?20 The data base that transportation professionals21 A. use is actually related to the units and units generally22 have occupants in it, so it's the standard we use, not23 per resident, it's per unit. And that's what's been24 selected in the industry. So it's been found to be a25 170 reliable independent variable.1 For clarification, the data base is the Institute2 Q. of Traffic Engineers?3 That is correct.4 A. And you're referring, if I am correct, land use5 Q. code 221 in your report Page 8?6 I believe that's correct, yes.7 A. And that refers to multi level, mid level --8 Q. multifamily --9 Mid rise units, correct.10 A. And mid rise, where does mid rise cutoff?11 Q. It's three floors.12 A. Three floors.13 Q. Now, if this is four does it qualify under mid14 rise?15 A mid rise is three or more floors is mid rise.16 A. I'm sorry, I thought you said three is mid rise?17 Q. Low rise would be under three floors.18 A. Good, I'm glad you clarified.19 Q. And what's the number where high-rise would begin20 typically?21 Over ten floors.22 A. Okay.23 Q. So we're mid rise because we're between three and24 ten?25 171 Basically, yes.1 A. Now, the data you used came from ITE?2 Q. Yes.3 A. Did you use any other source of data in computing4 Q. the number of trips in and out at different times of the5 day?6 For this development we used the ITE.7 A. I think your answer gives us -- I think your last8 Q. answer answered this, but let me just follow up. Did9 you do any traffic study comparable to mid

5 day?6 For this development we used the ITE.7 A. I think your answer gives us -- I think your last8 Q. answer answered this, but let me just follow up. Did9 you do any traffic study comparable to mid rise10 developments in West Orange, north Jersey or the general11 region?12 Not specifically, but I did give ancillary13 A. testimony earlier that I did look at the generation14 coming in and out the site as it relates to the15 townhouses there and testified to that earlier. But the16 data itself and the ITE is other similar uses.17 Did you do an actual study of the usage in the18 Q. association?19 We actually did, it was two sources of20 A. evaluation. It was the traffic counts we took in May21 and there's 2018 more extensive counts that were taken22 by Mr. Lubinieki and it's documented in the appendix of23 my report.24 And that's what you referred to --25 Q. 172 That' correct.1 A. -- when you said the differences were essentially2 Q. flat between the two years?3 That's correct. And it also gives us the trip4 A. generation for the residential uses, you're able to5 ascertain that, yes.6 Now, the townhouse development is not a7 Q. multifamily mid rise project, is it?8 It's not. It would be a higher generator as I9 A. testified.10 Okay.11 Q. So the 300 units in the association are not12 necessarily analogous of comparable to what we might13 expect in this project?14 It's similar, but like I said, it's higher. The15 A. important analogy it's just providing some ancillary16 data to the board as to the viability of the ITE data.17 Now, going to the ITE data. What sources does18 Q. ITE draw upon in terms of the information you took from19 the site?20 Not --21 A. Let me rephrase that. Sorry.22 Q. Yeah.23 A. What source does ITE draw on in terms of data24 Q. that you took from ITE code 221?25

09/27/2024 06:14:01 AM Page 173 to 176 of 180 44 of 71 sheets 173 Well, it's basically traffic counts that have1 A. been conducted at similar mid rise facilities nationwide2 and submitted by transportation professionals to ITE and3 then they vet the data and update periodically the data4 source.5 So ITE doesn't use the data base say for northern6 Q. New Jersey in particular, does it?7 No.8 A. And they don't even use one for the metropolitan9 Q. area, do they?10 No, there are striations for urban areas for11 A. proximity to train stations and so forth. And as more12 and more data comes in they try to striate it more. But13 what we found is the data is indicative of the level of14 traffic you can anticipate. National data is really15 indicative. There really is no substantial differences16 regional. And as I said, we're not looking for the17 exact numbers, we're looking for the sort of level of18 traffic.19 No, no one expects exact numbers, it's projection20 Q. of course.21 Okay.22 A. So -- strike that.23 Q. Why do you determine only 8:00 to 9:00 and 5:0024 to 6:00 are the peak hours? Why not 8:00 to 10:00, 8:3025 174 to 10:30, etc. Why -- how do you settle on that?1 Because we're looking for peak hour. A one hour2 A. period for 15 minute segments. So when we look at the3 data we take a longer -- when we do our counts we take a4 longer period. We look at the peak periods at, you5 know, 6:00 AM to 9:00 or whatever depending on the area.6 And then from that we are able to find the peak 157 minutes and quite frankly when we actually get down to8 our analysis we adjust for the peak 15 minutes within9 peak hours. So our analysis even takes it down a little10 further because we're looking for the highest level of11 traffic to analyze and to design for.12 You didn't do weekends I noticed?13 Q. I didn't. For residential development typically14 A. the higher impacts are on your commuter peak hours.15 There's no concern about recreational travel,16 Q. shopping travel, things of that nature on weekends going17 through the association?18 No. In general residential traffic is lower and19 A. more distributed throughout the day on weekends. So if20 you design for those weekday peaks you've accommodated21 those weekend hours. That's generally what's done in22 the industry. Weekends you would look at if it was a23 shopping center, restaurants, you know, you look for

e weekday peaks you've accommodated21 those weekend hours. That's generally what's done in22 the industry. Weekends you would look at if it was a23 shopping center, restaurants, you know, you look for the24 peaks for the, you know, if you were in a commercial25 175 area like that. So there are specific periods we know1 as traffic engineers that will find the peaks and we2 design for those then all the other periods are3 ancillary.4 I just have one more question -- couple more5 Q. questions.6 You mentioned cooperation would be required with7 Crestmont County Club, you didn't explain what8 cooperation you are anticipating needing?9 There's two aspects to it. It would be the10 A. improvements along Eagle Rock Avenue, as questioned by11 Mr. Klein, would require some widening to get the left12 turn lane in, so some right-of-way or easements are13 required along the frontage of Crestmont Country Club.14 And then the other aspect that we're looking to do and15 help Crestmont Country Club improve the safety of their16 driveway since we're putting in a signal and since we're17 looking for their cooperation, we would actually move18 their exit drive to the signal also. So that would19 improve the safety of that section of Eagle Rock and20 their egress.21 So that's what you were referring to by22 Q. cooperation?23 Correct.24 A. Last question I have, did you do any study as to25 Q. 176 the affect on the association roadways traffic movement,1 etc., from this new traffic coming in from these 500 new2 units?3 So as I indicate in my traffic study and was4 A. documented in the appended traffic study from 2018,5 there was an extensive study with a higher level of6 traffic done, pretty much at all the intersections along7 Oval Road and Warner Road which indicated all those8 intersections would continue to function at good levels9 of service. Inside of the circulation of, of the10 Highlands, Davey Drive or Kuzik Drive, if it's closed,11 there would be no additional traffic and no changes to12 traffic flows within the actual frontage areas where the13 residents front on and have their driveways.14 To your knowledge since the 2006 application came15 Q. before this board have there been changes in the road16 patterns at Howell or Kuzik?17 Since 2006?18 A. Yes.19 Q. I can't speak to that whole time frame, no.20 A. I'm sorry, I have one more question, but I may21 Q. have forgotten

been changes in the road16 patterns at Howell or Kuzik?17 Since 2006?18 A. Yes.19 Q. I can't speak to that whole time frame, no.20 A. I'm sorry, I have one more question, but I may21 Q. have forgotten it. Excuse me.22 You mentioned that if there's an accident on the23 circle there would be a period of time when access out24 of this development, this new project will be blocked.25

45 of 71 sheets Page 177 to 180 of 180 09/27/2024 06:14:01 AM 177 And you said people would just have to wait until it1 clears. Do you recall that general testimony?2 I don't think it was with regard to the circle.3 A. I think the testimony was, if an accident happened on4 Oval Road that blocked Oval Road, yes. Not unlike5 today's condition, anybody that lives in the townhouses6 would be blocked from getting out until emergency7 services provided otherwise. I mean, basically there is8 a connection Oval Road up, but I don't know that is9 available to be opened. I haven't researched that10 particular physical connection on Warner Road and Oval11 Road but, yes.12 It doesn't exist yet, that connection?13 Q. Well, there's an actual physical connection but14 A. it's gated and I don't know who controls it and whether15 or not it is open to emergency services or not.16 Now, you mentioned this problem of waiting until17 Q. an accident clears is common in any townhouse18 development. That would apply to a development with19 only one point of ingress and egress, is that correct?20 That's correct and it's not uncommon to have a21 A. location with one point of ingress and egress. There's22 probably multiple communities in West Orange, certainly23 across the state that are designed this way.24 Are you familiar with any by name that you can25 Q. 178 identify now?1 In this area?2 A. That have one point of ingress and egress of this3 Q. dimension.4 I'm thinking Eagle Ridge over on Valley Way. I'm5 A. thinking Pont Crystal Lake.6 You're thinking or you're saying you know this?7 Q. Those are the ones that come to mind that I8 A. believe have only one point and don't have -- and are9 served by emergencies access. I think there's one right10 off of Pleasant Valley way just south of 280 that has a11 single point of access but does have an emergency access12 out the back end. But, again, it's a gated emergency13 access so it would be similar to this. So it would be14 similar to this with a gated emergency access.15 So you consider it best practice to have a16 Q. development of this size to have only one means of daily17 ingress and egress?18 I disagree with that characterization. We have19 A. three points of access. Two of them will be controlled20 by emergency access. In terms of the daily flow of21 traffic in and out of this site, yes, it's more than22 adequate to have just

We have19 A. three points of access. Two of them will be controlled20 by emergency access. In terms of the daily flow of21 traffic in and out of this site, yes, it's more than22 adequate to have just Warner Road serve the site.23 My question was, is it consistent with what you24 Q. understand to be the best practice?25 179 Yes, I, yeah, there is no practice that says that1 A. you must have multiple points of access. In fact one of2 the tenets of the state highway access code is to3 minimize access, to control access. More access can4 create as much negative as it does positive.5 We'll look into that. Thank you very, Mr.6 Q. Pehnke.7 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you, sir.8 As the hour grows late we're going to finish up9 the meeting this evening.10 Next regular hearing of the planning board is on11 October 9, 2024, at 7:30 PM via zoom.12 This meeting will be carried, no further notice13 will be required, to October 30, Wednesday, 2024 in14 counsel chambers.15 Motion to adjourn. 6:30 PM.16 (Meeting concludes at 10:50 PM.)17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 180 C E R T I F I C A T E1 I, ERIC S. FISHMAN, a Shorthand Reporter2 and Notary Public of the State of New Jersey do hereby3 certify that the foregoing is a true and accurate4 transcript of the testimony as taken stenographically by5 and before me at the time, place and on the date6 hereinbefore set forth, to the best of my ability.7 I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither a8 relative nor employee nor attorney nor counsel of any of9 the parties to the action; and that I am neither a10 relative nor employee of such attorney or counsel; and11 that I am not financially interested in the action.12 13 14 ---------------------15 ERIC S. FISHMAN, S.R.16 17 18 Dated:__________________19 20 21 22 23 24 25

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