September 11, 2024 Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

09/27/2024 06:14:01 AM Page 149 to 152 of 180 38 of 71 sheets 149 application. In the Settlement Agreement there is an1 agreement to work with the homeowners association to2 implement a gatehouse and/or other traffic calming3 features. I don't know that there's a firm commitment4 to that, but that is what has been expressed in the5 Settlement Agreement. But that remains to be a6 cooperative working resolution between the owner and the7 homeowners association.8 THE PUBLIC: I thought I heard tonight a9 mention of it not being on Oval Road but it being on10 Warner Road?11 THE WITNESS: I was, I was --12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Plocker.13 MR. PLOCKER: I can address it. The14 discussion, the informal discussion pursuant to the15 Settlement Agreement between the applicant and the16 homeowners association of the Highlands is that the17 gatehouse would go on Warner Road not Oval Road. And to18 the extent that an approval would be needed after this19 job would be built and those improvements would be made,20 we obviously, if required, we would come to the board or21 go through the proper permitting process with the22 Township of West Orange.23 THE PUBLIC: And just where was it supposed24 to be on Warner Road?25 150 THE WITNESS: I don't think that's been1 determined yet.2 THE PUBLIC: But, okay. I'm just trying to3 understand if it's down near Oval Road or if it's up4 near this new proposed development?5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: They said it's under6 discussion with West Essex Highlands.7 THE PUBLIC: Okay. So, all right. So if8 it's a gatehouse for this new development then it would9 be, I'm assuming it would be up --10 THE WITNESS: It's not for this development.11 THE PUBLIC: It's not for this development.12 THE WITNESS: And it's not associated and/or13 needed for this development. It's a request by the West14 -- The Highlands at West Highlands Essex.15 THE PUBLIC: All right. The reason I'm16 asking the question, I don't know if the map depicts17 Oval and Warner, I can't make that out.18 THE WITNESS: It doesn't.19 THE PUBLIC: Okay. So I'm looking at a map20 of Oval and Warner and I went there today just to see21 and the idea of a gatehouse at Warner and Oval22 disregard, I think it's Bongart, Bongard Drive.23 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, listen to me a24 second. It's not part of this application that's being25 151 presented now. It's an agreement for a future facility1 based on a

it's Bongart, Bongard Drive.23 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, listen to me a24 second. It's not part of this application that's being25 151 presented now. It's an agreement for a future facility1 based on a Settlement Agreement that the two2 organizations will have to discuss and come back to the3 planning board with concept plans.4 THE PUBLIC: So should I limit my inquiry5 and not ask about something that was raised earlier?6 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You can ask, but he didn't7 testify to it.8 THE PUBLIC: Okay. All right.9 So what is the reason for a traffic signal10 at Eagle Rock?11 THE WITNESS: To improve the operation of12 the intersection and the safety of the intersection as13 it exists today. You have the unsignalized14 intersection, there are delays on the stop sign15 approach. There's sight line concerns looking right.16 Making left's are difficult turning out and the signal17 obviates all that.18 THE PUBLIC: In a word, safety?19 THE WITNESS: Safety.20 THE PUBLIC: And is it because you'll be21 increasing the vehicular traffic at that location by at22 least double?23 THE WITNESS: Well, it's, you know, as was24 discussed earlier, it's been requested from the county25 152 in the past to deal with a signal at that location as1 the existing. So it's to deal with the existing traffic2 and, yes, certainly it's to address the additional3 traffic. So it's a combination of both.4 THE PUBLIC: Okay.5 And is my, I don't want to make the6 assumption. What is your assumptions by way of how much7 more traffic will travel on Oval and Warner Road to get8 to that development?9 THE WITNESS: As I testified to earlier, the10 morning hour we would expect about a 100 -- call it 16011 vehicles leaving this development traveling down to12 Eagle Rock Avenue. In the evening you're roughly13 looking at, call it 120 arriving back in and just under14 100 leaving. So two-way traffic.15 THE PUBLIC: And how does that change the --16 presently in that development, approximately how many17 vehicles travel?18 THE WITNESS: I can give you that data also.19 So coming in from Eagle Rock you have about 111 vehicles20 coming out in the morning, about 65 coming in the21 morning. In the evening about 109 coming in and about22 101 coming out associated with the 370 units, The23 Chateau and actually the paddle facility.24 THE PUBLIC: So it more than doubles?25

39 of 71 sheets Page 153 to 156 of 180 09/27/2024 06:14:01 AM 153 THE WITNESS: Yes.1 THE PUBLIC: Okay.2 And the complete streets that everyone3 talked about earlier, it's just pertaining to the4 development, correct? It's not pertaining to -- you're5 not completing Warner, you're not completing Oval Road?6 THE WITNESS: Correct. Our application and7 our control is on our site.8 THE PUBLIC: Okay.9 And so the safety measure of the light and10 the complete streets of the development is to enhance11 safety, but Warner Road and Oval Road, they're going to12 experience more than twice as much traffic. You will13 not have any additional safety measures added?14 THE WITNESS: So from that standpoint,15 Warner Road and Oval have the capacity to handle the16 additional traffic. Yes, there will be additional flow17 and it will be, you will see more flow. In terms of18 safety improvement, I think that's the intent of the19 agreement between the owner and the association to20 address that separately.21 THE PUBLIC: I saw today and I see on the22 map that there are tennis courts and a pool on the other23 side of Warner, on the north side of Warner. And then24 on the south side of Warner is the majority of25 154 residential units. Are you familiar with the tennis1 courts and other recreation facilities?2 THE WITNESS: Within our site?3 THE PUBLIC: No, in the existing site.4 THE WITNESS: There's the Essex Fells paddle5 facility that's along Oval Road just up by Warner Road.6 Yes, I've seen those.7 MR. PLOCKER: I think she's talking about8 the condo, the condo association.9 THE PUBLIC: I think so.10 MR. PLOCKER: I just want to make sure the11 record is clear.12 THE PUBLIC: Is it Reger, Reger Lane?13 THE WITNESS: Oh, by Reger Lane.14 THE PUBLIC: Right. Reger Lane crosses, as15 I understand, Warner Road and I'm assuming that all the16 residents in that condo association are crossing Warner17 Road to get to the recreation facility. When I was18 there I saw people walking their dogs, I saw children19 walking along that area, I saw basketball courts. I'm20 assuming that it's for the residents of that area and21 West Orange and I'm assuming that they have to cross22 Warner Road without sidewalks and there's no, I'm23 asking, is there no plan to improve Warner Road? You're24 adding more than twice the amount of cars that are25 155 currently traveling on Warner Road, but there's no

ut sidewalks and there's no, I'm23 asking, is there no plan to improve Warner Road? You're24 adding more than twice the amount of cars that are25 155 currently traveling on Warner Road, but there's no plan1 on the part of the applicant to improve the safety of2 the residents that currently exist and the safety of the3 residents who have to travel Warner Road to either get4 to that bus stop if they're not -- if they don't have a5 car?6 THE WITNESS: So as I testified to, this7 application does not contain those elements, but as part8 of the Settlement Agreement with the Association there's9 a separate plan to progress, a separate application to10 make improvements along Warner Road and that's in the11 Settlement Agreement.12 THE PUBLIC: Thank you.13 So the other question that I have, I just14 have two more sections of questions, it'll be much15 quicker. So I notice off of Warner Road there's Davey16 Drive, are you familiar with Davey Drive?17 THE WITNESS: Yes.18 THE PUBLIC: Okay.19 So Davey Drive seems to go up to let's say20 Sullivan and then you can pass back over to Warner. I21 don't know if there's any calming plans, you know,22 traffic calming initiatives for Davey Drive, but just23 living in a neighborhood that has a similar set of24 features, when one road gets --25 156 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, this is not part of1 this application, so do you want to focus on this2 application.3 THE PUBLIC: I'm just trying to find out if4 there's going to be any safety measures added --5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: They don't have6 information on that. He can't answer if it's not part7 of the application.8 THE PUBLIC: So the planning board is9 considering the application without information about --10 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You're not listening.11 THE PUBLIC: No, I'm listening to you, sir.12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You're not hearing me.13 This is not part of this application.14 THE PUBLIC: So I should not inquire about15 safety measures?16 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You can inquire if it's17 part of this application.18 THE PUBLIC: Mr. Chairman, I'd just like to19 state for the record, they're going to add --20 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I'm going -- no, no21 record. Stop it. You have to understand --22 THE PUBLIC: Stop what?23 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You have to understand --24 THE PUBLIC: You made a statement.25

09/27/2024 06:14:01 AM Page 157 to 160 of 180 40 of 71 sheets 157 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: -- we have to move1 forward.2 THE PUBLIC: You made a statement on the3 record.4 I am.5 You have a light, you have a light at Eagle6 Rock and you have a development at the top of the7 road --8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am.9 THE PUBLIC: -- and you're saying everything10 in between they're not, they're not testifying about?11 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: They're not, as part of12 this application.13 THE PUBLIC: Fair enough. Fair enough,14 Chair. Fair enough. If you feel it is not the purview15 of the board to consider that --16 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: That's not -- you're not17 listening to me.18 THE PUBLIC: Oh, I'm listening to you, sir.19 But I'm just challenging what you're stating.20 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: The purview of the board21 and the application before us is two different things.22 It's the job of the board to focus on the application23 before us so the public can ask questions and understand24 and the board can focus on the information.25 158 THE PUBLIC: And it's the job --1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: As you muddy the waters2 with things that are not part of the application it3 becomes more difficult to pull out actual information.4 THE PUBLIC: So Mr. Chairman, I object to5 your suggestion that I'm muddying the waters. As a6 member of the public it's my job to bring to your7 attention what I think is relevant and a safety8 consideration on Warner Drive, I believe, is relevant.9 And I believe the rest of the community does too.10 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You are talking about11 Davey right now. Let's focus on what he said and I'm12 not going to argue any more. We're done. Thank you.13 THE PUBLIC: My next question is about --14 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Go right ahead.15 THE PUBLIC: Thank you.16 You had mentioned Sprinter vans. Do you17 remember mentioning Sprinter vans, the size of a18 Sprinter van would have difficulty making a left turn?19 THE WITNESS: Yes.20 THE PUBLIC: Okay.21 I think about Amazon vehicles, delivery22 trucks, I think about our jitney, I heard they're23 committed to jitney stops, are jitney vehicles are24 larger than Sprinter vans, and think about school buses.25 159 So are there considerations being made for vehicles that1 would naturally visit those locations, those buildings2 and how they would travel beyond just these circles?3 Because a circle that's out of the way is less likely4 going to be used and

vehicles that1 would naturally visit those locations, those buildings2 and how they would travel beyond just these circles?3 Because a circle that's out of the way is less likely4 going to be used and it's much more likely that vehicles5 are going to turn left. Are there ways that traffic can6 be compelled to follow one direction to the circles?7 THE WITNESS: We believe the site is8 appropriately designed meeting standards to accommodate9 those types of vehicles. I believe the site circulation10 will operate appropriately for the types of vehicles.11 There's nothing unusual in this site.12 THE PUBLIC: Okay. Thank you.13 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Please come up and state14 your name for the record. Spell your last name.15 THE PUBLIC: Rachel Klein, K-L-I-E-N.16 When you did these traffic studies was it17 just about residential traffic or did you take into18 account the business and possible businesses that were19 mentioned one in the settlement and then in the planning20 statement?21 THE WITNESS: There are no businesses22 proposed on this site.23 THE PUBLIC: In the settlement there's a dog24 kennel proposed.25 160 THE WITNESS: There's an amenity that is a1 maintenance facility and a dog house. It is an amenity2 to the community.3 THE PUBLIC: It says in the Settlement.4 Agreement it's open to the public.5 THE WITNESS: I don't know that it6 specifically says that.7 THE PUBLIC: It does. I memorized it. It's8 Page 16 number 7.9 And then there was a statement added to the10 amenities, it sounds like almost four more businesses in11 the same building. So I guess --12 THE WITNESS: There are no businesses. The13 pet grooming and dog house is an amenity to the14 facility. If it was open to the adjacent community,15 quite frankly, it wouldn't be a traffic impact.16 THE PUBLIC: It's says the public.17 THE WITNESS: If the zoning allows that to18 happen and it can happen. Still would not be a traffic19 -- rise to a traffic impact. It's a small little20 facility.21 THE PUBLIC: Okay. But as of now you22 haven't taken that into consideration?23 THE WITNESS: And I wouldn't adjust for it.24 It's so small it would not generate any realistic25

41 of 71 sheets Page 161 to 164 of 180 09/27/2024 06:14:01 AM 161 traffic impacts.1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Good evening. Please come2 forward and state your name.3 THE PUBLIC: Yes, it's Orin Knights,4 K-N-I-G-H-T-S. O-R-I-N.5 This statement is towards Mayor McCartney,6 President Rutherford, the board and to this gentleman7 over here, the chairman. We are all taxpayers in this8 community and we are concerned that the project that's9 going to affect the entire community. But since I have10 been coming to this meeting or these meetings, I find11 that you, Mr. Chairman, you need to speak to us, the12 residents, with respect. Because the taxpayers, we pay13 a lot of taxes to live in West Orange. So I want to ask14 you if you can speak to us with respect. Because we15 have concerns. The woman that was just up here, she's16 talking about safety concerns as well and there's a lot17 of other concerns that we have. But it's very18 disrespectful if you can't listen to us as taxpayers,19 and that's all I have to say for now. Thank you.20 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. So let me respond,21 sir. We have the greatest respect for taxpayers who22 come up and focus on the application before us. The23 applicant is also a taxpayer in the township of West24 Orange. No matter who comes before the board there are25 162 rules, just like in a courtroom. This is a quasi1 judicial body, the goal is that on behalf of the2 taxpayers we hear the information pertinent to the3 application with due respect. Once people disrespect4 the board and the applicant and the people sitting in5 the room by bringing in things that they believe are6 part of the application but have absolutely no value, we7 do believe and understand your issues. Absolutely.8 Unfortunately at this moment that road is not part of9 this application. We have to understand how we have to10 respect the application in front us. We have rules we11 have to follow. Everybody that comes up before us and12 speaks about the application can talk as long as they we13 want. We give everybody a lot of time to get their14 information across because we do respect the taxpayer.15 But people that come up and ask other questions and make16 you think that this is part of the application is unfair17 to you. It is our job to make sure that the people of18 the township know exactly what's before the planning19 board and what we can do and what we can't do. So

is part of the application is unfair17 to you. It is our job to make sure that the people of18 the township know exactly what's before the planning19 board and what we can do and what we can't do. So when20 people come up and start talking about other things and21 we respectfully ask them to focus and they don't, that's22 when you are being harmed.23 THE PUBLIC: With all due respect, what I'm24 saying is that, I understand what you're saying, I25 163 understand what you're saying, sir. But we're not1 children. So there's a way that you speak to people,2 and you speak to us with respect. I understand what3 you're saying sir, but you have to speak to us with4 respect. We're grown adults. I understand what you're5 saying, but please speak to us here with respect.6 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Absolutely, sir. So when7 the Chair asks for someone to wait a moment and they8 keep talking over us, it is not respecting you.9 THE PUBLIC: I understand that. But there10 is a way you can get your message across.11 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I appreciate your comment12 and I apologize if you feel that I did not.13 THE PUBLIC: Thank you.14 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Afran.15 COUNCIL PRESIDENT RUTHERFORD: Before Mr.16 Afran, Mr. Chair, if I may.17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Council President18 Rutherford.19 COUNCIL PRESIDENT RUTHERFORD: With regard20 to some of the comments that folks have with regard to21 the pedestrian safety and the bike lanes and the22 sidewalks, you're welcome to join us at a council23 meeting and raise it there and we can, and there's24 another council person in here tonight shaking their25 164 head, we can understand what goes on and, you know, get1 involved ourselves from that side.2 To Mr. Chairs point, this body is not going3 to be able to enforce any of that, that has been4 suggested tonight. But there are other body's that can.5 And if you can't make it to a council meeting you can6 certainly send us an e-mail.7 Thank you, Mr. Chair.8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you.9 Mr. Aran.10 Sir, go right ahead.11 THE PUBLIC: Nish Gajarawala, N-I-S-H,12 G-A-J-A-R-A-W-A-L-A.13 There's been a number of conversations14 tonight about the Oval Road width. I have two15 questions.16 First, on the roads that are in the plan17 itself, the schematic, who owns those going forward and18 who will be responsible for ongoing maintenance?19 THE WITNESS: The -- it is owned by the20 applicant and maintained by the

are in the plan17 itself, the schematic, who owns those going forward and18 who will be responsible for ongoing maintenance?19 THE WITNESS: The -- it is owned by the20 applicant and maintained by the management company.21 THE PUBLIC: For how long? Is there a22 duration.23 THE WITNESS: Forever.24 THE PUBLIC: Forever.25

09/27/2024 06:14:01 AM Page 165 to 168 of 180 42 of 71 sheets 165 Who owns Oval Road and who is responsible1 for maintaining it going forward?2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Plocker, do you know?3 MR. PLOCKER: Oval Road is a private road.4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: It's a private road.5 MR. PLOCKER: And my client has -- I'm6 sorry, I can't -- there's a lot of talking going on.7 Oval Road is a private road and has been maintained by8 my client.9 THE PUBLIC: Sorry, point of clarity. So10 the client owns Oval Road, meaning he's responsible for11 maintenance of that road?12 MR. PLOCKER: My client -- I don't want to13 misspeak. Title can be very complicated. My client has14 assumed the responsibility for the maintenance of Oval15 Road.16 MS. MCGOVERN: When you say, your client,17 the applicant here is West Essex Highlands Condominium18 -- I'm sorry. West Essex Highlands, Inc.19 MR. PLOCKER: Yeah, it's obviously -- this20 is an ownership issue and I don't want to misspeak. I21 don't want to create a bad record.22 MS. MCGOVERN: Sounds like there's common23 ownership.24 MR. PLOCKER: There may be common ownership.25 166 The Association may do some snowplowing on Oval Road.1 Obviously there, with respect to the common roads2 between, you know, Warner there's an agreement, part of3 the Settlement Agreement there is a way to divvy it up,4 the maintenance and, you know, of Warner.5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: So at this moment there's6 no testimony of who owns Oval Road. However, it's a7 private road. Not owned by the township.8 THE PUBLIC: It is -- I'm sorry, repeat9 that. It is what?10 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Private road not owned by11 the Township of West Orange.12 THE PUBLIC: Okay. But I guess my13 confusion, if you will, this new development will impact14 over -- it will double, more than double the amount of15 impact on the road, the wear and tear and it's a private16 road and it's up to the private owner and again, I'm17 still not clear on who owns it because that influences18 who is able to maintain it because all the other19 residents of The Grand and all of the other residents of20 the Highlands condos and The Chateau and the paddle21 board users, they all need to rely upon this22 thoroughfare that this development is impacting. And23 it's not clear who owns it, what's the maintenance plan,24 because we've had issues in the past and now it's just25 167 going to exacerbate it going