October 30, 2024 Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

11 of 80 sheets Page 41 to 44 of 203 11/06/2024 03:21:43 PM 41 MR. AFRAN: Thank you.1 COUNCIL PRESIDENT RUTHERFORD: Mr. DeFeo,2 you mentioned South Mountain Reservation, which is a3 property nearby, I assume all of us are familiar with4 it. Are there any other spaces near by that use deer5 fencing?6 THE WITNESS: In terms of -- excuse me. In7 terms of deer fencing you're saying. Top of my head --8 well, I consider Hillsborough nearby, you might not, but9 Hillsborough would be the largest example I know of.10 Otherwise they're randomly throughout. Certain gardens,11 I can't speak specifically of each one, botanical12 gardens or horticultural gardens will often use deer13 fencing to protect in this area. I didn't go look at14 them. The ones I know of are the two I cited because15 they're the largest that I know of.16 COUNCIL PRESIDENT RUTHERFORD: Is there data17 from either South Mountain or Hillsborough that shows18 over the course of time the growth of the undergrowth in19 the forest?20 THE WITNESS: Oh, I just gave you21 photographic evidence, that's all from Duke Farms.22 COUNCIL PRESIDENT RUTHERFORD: That's a23 picture, is there data?24 THE WITNESS: You can go to Duke Farms25 42 website and you can read a study of their deer fencing1 project. You know, go right to Duke Farms Foundation2 and you would find their studies right there. I mean, I3 can get it for you.4 MR. AFRAN: With respect, I would raise an5 objection to the suggestion that the board --6 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Afran. Go ahead, sir.7 MR. AFRAN: With respect to Mr. DeFeo, he's8 not a lawyer, I understand that.9 THE WITNESS: Thank you.10 MR. AFRAN: I would raise an objection to11 the suggestion that the board may independently look at12 website discussions that are not being offered into13 evidence.14 MS. MCGOVERN: He raises a good point. Mr.15 DeFeo do you want to like summarize, just summarize16 briefly what those findings are, if you have them here,17 if not we can introduce it as an exhibit later on.18 THE WITNESS: I can certainly do both. In19 brief the study at Duke Farms, and they had a, I was not20 able to attend it, but about two or three years ago they21 had a seminar on this as well and I did talk to one of22 the people giving the seminar. Their findings were that23 within three to four years you had significant24 undergrowth come back into the forest. In three to five25 43 years you

I did talk to one of22 the people giving the seminar. Their findings were that23 within three to four years you had significant24 undergrowth come back into the forest. In three to five25 43 years you will see basically a new forest growing within1 the old forest and the deer no longer did damage.2 That's about as short a summary I could give you. But I3 would happily attach it and give you an amended report4 going forward.5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I'm going to request that6 he send this to our secretary. It would be posted on7 our website and provide it to Mr. Afran and Mr. Plocker.8 THE WITNESS: Be my pleasure.9 COUNCIL PRESIDENT RUTHERFORD: My last10 question, Mr. DeFeo, at least for now, would be, is11 there any data with regard to projects similar to this12 one where you have an old growth undisturbed forest that13 gets developed utilizing deer fencing or a portion of14 it, with regard to storm water runoff? You mentioned in15 your testimony that the undergrowth will act like a16 sponge, is there any data around that?17 THE WITNESS: There is. I did not include18 it in my report, it wasn't part of what I was looking19 for. I'm happy to look up those reports for you and20 give you, again, a supplemental report showing that new21 growth absorbs water at a faster rate than older growth.22 That's a finding that's out there. I would gladly do23 that.24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: So I would request that,25 44 Mr. DeFeo.1 MR. KLEIN: Quick follow up.2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mayor McCartney and then3 Mr. Klein.4 MAYOR McCARTNEY: I was going to say that5 the County can also provide their findings on the deer6 fencing that they used in South Mountain.7 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: We're going to let Mr.8 DeFeo do that, but thank you, Mayor.9 THE WITNESS: I'm happy to look at that as10 well.11 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Klein.12 MR. KLEIN: Are there different coefficients13 of runoff and things? Would you say the existing forest14 and condition that it's in has a certain absorption15 value or certain runoff value and then three to five, 1016 years from now it will have a different runoff or17 absorption value and it would be a greater absorption,18 less runoff. Is that -- I know gravel is different than19 asphalt, different than grass, different than --20 THE WITNESS: Grass is not a whole lot21 different than gravel and asphalt quite honestly. But,22 yes, there are such studies, I don't have them.

an19 asphalt, different than grass, different than --20 THE WITNESS: Grass is not a whole lot21 different than gravel and asphalt quite honestly. But,22 yes, there are such studies, I don't have them. I23 didn't research them for this. I couldn't give you24 those numbers or coefficients, but I'd have to go25