June 30, 2025, Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

an see it with me. I think that's16 required, as a public official that's required of me and17 I think that's a reasonable expectation for all of you18 and your experts. And by all means, I don't know what19 the result of that expert analysis is going to be, but20 do the work. That's my request of you guys.21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. Thank you.22 I think we are getting redundant, but we23 hear you.24 You have anything to say?25

41 of 70 sheets Page 161 to 164 of 175 08/07/2025 02:56:42 PM 161 MR. MacNEILL: No questions.1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Haizel?2 MR. HAIZEl: No questions.3 MR. PLOCKER: I have one.4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mayor McCartney first.5 MAYOR McCARTNEY: So after listening, Mayor6 Davis compelled me to go back into my notes and back in7 April when we were listening to the Princeton Hydro8 testimony, there was, actually I asked the question9 about should the basins go deeper or wider. Do you10 recall. And now Mr. MacNeill, we are talking about when11 does that decision get made? We didn't really talk12 about specifically Verona or Essex Fells, we just talked13 in general about these basins. Are you saying that14 happens during construction or should that decision be15 made right now?16 MR. MacNEILL: So the decision has been made17 with their current design. So all the things I brought18 up are if the soil testing that they submitted is19 incorrect and the seasonal high water table that they20 have identified ends up being incorrect and way off of21 what their geotechnical engineer has testified, if22 that's the case then we're going back to a revision and23 then amended approval at the board level. But, again,24 that's all at this point speculative on what potentially25 162 could happen with the additional soil testing that will1 be performed during any potential construction. But2 right now the applicant is moving forward with the3 current design for the stormwater basin. The current4 sizes you currently see on the plans will be moved5 forward with into construction and then be verified6 during and post construction. To -- really can't7 confirm, design the seasonal high is regulated where8 they said it is, you're going to go with this basin9 design or no, based on our inspection now you have to10 address a higher seasonal high water table.11 MAYOR McCARTNEY: That's your concern,12 that's what you're saying?13 MR. MacNEILL: Yeah, that, again, this is14 what will happen. We'll be inspecting during and post15 construction to ensure all the soil testing is16 reverifying what we already submitted and reviewed.17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Klein?18 MR. KLEIN: I don't know how to word this.19 Is there a seasonal high water table level where you20 just can't have a detention basin and infiltration?21 MR. MacNEILL: So you only did -- state22 standard you only need 2-feet from the seasonal

19 Is there a seasonal high water table level where you20 just can't have a detention basin and infiltration?21 MR. MacNEILL: So you only did -- state22 standard you only need 2-feet from the seasonal high23 water table to the bottom of your BMP. That gets24 confusing because the bottoms not necessarily the bottom25 163 of your basin, like the ground surface. It's the bottom1 of the sand layer. Or if there's an underground2 infiltration at the bottom of the stone bed it's3 technically the bottom. So you need 2-feet to the4 seasonal high water.5 MR. KLEIN: That's how they designed it now?6 MR. MacNEILL: Yeah.7 MR. KLEIN: And if they were to come up a8 foot?9 MR. MacNEILL: Then they're noncompliant10 with their BMP requirements and have to address that in11 the field as a field change. Now you have to pick it up12 6-inches then if they are way off on the submitted soil13 testing then it would be a stop work, come back to the14 board and have a completely new redesign on the15 stormwater.16 MR. KLEIN: Which may not be detention, it17 could be storage or whatever?18 MR. MacNEILL: New underground infill.19 Maybe that's more impervious pavement that would be open20 to just using BMPs that are approved by DEP.21 MR. KLEIN: Correct. And that could hold up22 construction and this project could take forever?23 MR. MacNEILL: And really in my review the24 Princeton Hydro report soil testing was the major25 164 comment that they had that could have a major impact in1 the field. So that is why in my letter we have them2 adding those notes to their plans before construction,3 that they have to verify this during and post4 construction. If the applicant submitted false5 information from their geotechnical engineer, they have6 the burden to address that.7 MR. KLEIN: Thank you.8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you.9 Mr. Haizel?10 MR. HAIZEL: I'm good.11 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay.12 Mr. Plocker.13 MR. PLOCKER: Just very briefly. Thank you,14 Mr. -- Mayor Davis.15 Thank you for your comments. I just wanted16 to confirm since you acknowledge you are not a17 professional engineer you are not qualified to review18 the proposed stormwater management system as part of19 this application, correct?20 THE PUBLIC: Correct.21 MR. PLOCKER: Okay.22 So you don't know whether that stormwater23 system in your personal mind would reduce, increase or24 have a net negative effect on the well water?25

08/07/2025 02:56:42 PM Page 165 to 168 of 175 42 of 70 sheets 165 THE PUBLIC: My own personal mind, I do know1 based on the testimony --2 THE PUBLIC: Based on the stormwater design3 are you qualified to opine?4 THE PUBLIC: I am not an engineer, no.5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Council Person Scarpa.6 COUNCIL PERSON SCARPA: I have a comment. I7 would like Mayor Davis, please call me next time it8 rains because I would really like to see.9 THE PUBLIC: I think we might have company.10 You are more than welcome. Thank you.11 Thank you board members.12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you very much for13 your time. Any other questions -- sir, this is not the14 time for public questions. You can ask him a question15 of his testimony.16 THE PUBLIC: Victor Misarti.17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Sir.18 THE PUBLIC: I am from West Orange on19 Mayfair Drive.20 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you.21 THE PUBLIC: Sir, I had a question. So22 Mayor, I guess this is a question of the town engineer.23 MR. MacNEILL: Board engineer.24 THE PUBLIC: So the Mayor stated that we25 166 have this flooding every time it rains and it's getting1 worse and the question is like, and so your answer was2 that this application would meet the DEP requirements.3 I just have a question, I think it was stated earlier4 that the applicant got some kind of a waiver that they5 don't have to meet this requirement?6 MR. PLOCKER: Objection.7 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Sir.8 MR. PLOCKER: That's not accurate.9 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Sir, you can't hypothesize10 what happened. The applicant doesn't have a waiver.11 They applied, our expert looked at it and it is12 compliant with DEP regulations.13 THE PUBLIC: Okay. But my question is, it's14 not a statement it's a question. I thought it was an15 older version not the newest version?16 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Whatever DEP approved.17 The township's viewing everything.18 Mr. Afran.19 MR. AFRAN: In fairness to the applicant,20 that is one of the legal issues that's in the Appellate21 Division, whether they should have used the old or the22 new, but our contention --23 MR. PLOCKER: Okay. That's enough.24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. We're not arguing25 167 that. I'm just saying where we are right now. You guys1 can have at it later on.2 MR. AFRAN: I know it's 10:30, we have two3 other people, there's one person who will be about three4 minutes, if it's the board's pleasure to continue.5 MR. PLOCKER: Let's go.6 MR. AFRAN: We call

on.2 MR. AFRAN: I know it's 10:30, we have two3 other people, there's one person who will be about three4 minutes, if it's the board's pleasure to continue.5 MR. PLOCKER: Let's go.6 MR. AFRAN: We call Marea DePalma.7 MS. McGOVERN: Do you swear or affirm to8 tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth.9 THE PUBLIC: Yes, I do.10 MS. McGOVERN: Please state you name for the11 record and spell your last name.12 THE PUBLIC: Marea DePalma, D-E-P-A-L-M-A.13 MS. McGOVERN: Your address.14 THE PUBLIC: 67 Lapis Circle.15 M A R E A D E P A L M A, having been duly16 sworn testifies as follows:17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Go right ahead.18 THE PUBLIC: Good evening everyone. I am a19 resident of West Essex Highlands since 1992. Recently20 when the fire broke out I was trapped. My mother called21 me with a medical emergency and I could not get out.22 They wouldn't let me walk out either way. I took a23 photo of the whole thing and from what I recall when I24 first started to try to get out it was at least two, two25 168 and a half hours. I had no one to go to my mom's house,1 she is 93 years old. She's still working full-time but2 she wasn't feeling well and she only lives in West3 Caldwell but she depends on me being so close. So I4 couldn't even go out by foot. They would not let me5 pass the fire which was the entire block. I videoed it6 all. All he told me was, ma'am, get back. There was a7 fire engine on the golf course and the wind was blowing8 that day and you could not even see, it was completely a9 white cloud and I panicked and my mom panicked. Neither10 of her neighbors were home and I was panicked. So I was11 stuck and it's not a good feeling being stuck, not being12 able to get out of where you live, and I couldn't get13 out. And the fire was from one end to the other and I14 know that the tree knocked the wires down and caused the15 brush, but the flames at times from what I saw were at16 least this high. So I was stuck home for two, two and a17 half hours until they cleared for anyone to go out. It18 was blocked off with tape and I was trapped and it was19 not a nice feeling at all. And if anything happened to20 my mom, I don't know how I would have lived with that.21 So that's all I wanted to say about that. I have a22 video of the fire if anybody wants to see it. It's very23 vivid and I commented as I was told what to do, to go24 back and I could not leave.

at.21 So that's all I wanted to say about that. I have a22 video of the fire if anybody wants to see it. It's very23 vivid and I commented as I was told what to do, to go24 back and I could not leave. It was not a good feeling.25

43 of 70 sheets Page 169 to 172 of 175 08/07/2025 02:56:42 PM 169 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Thank you for1 your testimony. Okay.2 MR. AFRAN: There's one -- we have one more3 but probably -- there was one more witness tonight, I4 don't know whether you were doing other matters right5 now.6 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Three minutes.7 MR. AFRAN: Three minutes but not more than8 a few minutes.9 Rachel Klein and that would be the last10 person from us.11 MS. McGOVERN: Is she in your group?12 THE PUBLIC: No, I am not.13 MS. McGOVERN: Oh, I thought she was part of14 your group of people.15 THE PUBLIC: I'm not an officer.16 MR. AFRAN: We didn't say we are only doing17 our group of people. I said that Paul, as a18 representative of the organization, is speaking. We19 have fact witnesses. That's the point of Marea for20 example.21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. Go ahead.22 MS. McGOVERN: I misunderstood.23 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Come on guys.24 MS. McGOVERN: No, it's fine.25 170 MR. AFRAN: Ms. Klein is going to describe a1 certain condition.2 MS. McGOVERN: It's not public comment?3 MR. AFRAN: She's discussing a condition.4 MS. McGOVERN: Do you swear or affirm to5 tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth.6 THE PUBLIC: Yes.7 MS. McGOVERN: Please state you name and8 spell you last name and give us your address.9 THE PUBLIC: Rachel Klein, K-L-E-I-N. 1310 Howell Drive, West orange.11 R A C H E L K L E I N, having been duly12 sworn testifies as follows:13 THE PUBLIC: I wanted the board to be aware14 of a sewer issue, especially since no one has brought up15 exactly how the sewer lines are going to be dealt with,16 with the proposed development. There's currently a17 sewer line that goes through the property, goes from the18 West Essex Highlands all the way through and connects to19 the sewer line on Howell Drive. I moved into my20 property November 1, 2016 and immediately I noticed a21 smell, I didn't know what the smell was. I had assumed22 it was a swimming pool because I never owned one before.23 I was informed that it's actually the sewer line and24 it's been smelling for years. And upon investigation25 171 with the town, the Health Department, with county DEP1 representatives we pretty much narrowed it down that the2 sewer line that runs from West Essex Highlands through3 the woods there it's admitting a horrible odor all the4 time. And just imagine having a barbecue for

s we pretty much narrowed it down that the2 sewer line that runs from West Essex Highlands through3 the woods there it's admitting a horrible odor all the4 time. And just imagine having a barbecue for Father's5 Day and the wind turns and sitting in the backyard6 entertaining family and it's like having a porta potty7 just dumped on your property. It's a horrific smell.8 It always smells. The developer is aware of it because9 he was made to come out and smell it, but no one is10 dealing with it. The town is under the impression that11 it can only be dealt with by the owner of the property12 because the owner of the property owns the sewer line.13 The county just says to me come out whenever you smell14 it. So I'm literally chasing phantoms, chasing smells15 and this is what I'm living with all the time. My16 children, it's really hard to enjoy the backyard and to17 know that there is no plan right now for where you're18 planning to put this sewer line for 500 more homes, is19 this sewer line going to --20 MR. PLOCKER: I'm going to object. I21 believe that's a mischaracterization of the testimony.22 There is a sewer plan for this job. It's part of site23 plan set. So the fact that repeatedly people keep24 saying that there is no sewer plan, that is not25 172 accurate.1 MR. AFRAN: Well, there's no way to get the2 sewage from the building to any output. That's the lack3 of a sewer plan.4 MR. PLOCKER: That's not accurate.5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay.6 MR. AFRAN: Well, then I'd like to see --7 last time we had this discussion I said, show me the8 sewer plan. I don't see a sewer plan. I don't see a9 potable water plan.10 THE PUBLIC: I'll just say one other thing,11 as a resident of this town I have a major trust issue12 with an owner and a developer who I have been dealing13 with as a neighbor to my property who is just leaving us14 with this awful awful thing to deal with. I am going to15 trust him to put a basin above my property, I am going16 to trust him to blast above my property. I have a major17 trust issue and something that you should all be aware18 of. Come stand in my backyard, smell it and ask19 yourself, is this something I would live with and then20 is this someone I would ever trust. Tell me all your21 plans. DEP said this, I don't care. I am smelling raw22 sewage all the time because of this developer. Thank23 you.24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. We are

someone I would ever trust. Tell me all your21 plans. DEP said this, I don't care. I am smelling raw22 sewage all the time because of this developer. Thank23 you.24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. We are done.25

08/07/2025 02:56:42 PM Page 173 to 175 of 175 44 of 70 sheets 173 We are done.1 Council Person Scarpa.2 COUNCIL PERSON SCARPA: I want to comment on3 Ms. DePalma's testimony. I am concerned about the4 safety issues raised and am interested in the video as5 well.6 MR. AFRAN: I will ask for that and arrange7 to get it to --8 THE PUBLIC: I can't hear.9 MR. AFRAN: Oh, I'm sorry. Member Scarpa10 said that she's, I'll paraphrase, is concerned about the11 safety issues raised by Marea DePalma and would like to12 see the video. And so I was saying that I will make13 arrangements to get it. I don't think I've seen it.14 I'll arrange to get it and forward it to the board15 staff.16 I believe I am interpreting that correctly,17 right?18 COUNCIL PERSON SCARPA: Yes. That's exactly19 what I wanted to say.20 MR. AFRAN: Thank you.21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you.22 MR. FAGAN: I would like to point out that23 if anybody is going to forward a video it has to be MP24 format in order for me to show it on the screen.25 174 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. Thank you all1 members of the public and people who are here and the2 next Planning Board regular meeting will be on3 Wednesday, July 2, 2025. 7:30 PM via zoom. And the4 next special meeting of the Planning Board will be July5 16, 2025 and 6:30 PM in council chambers.6 (Hearing concludes at 10:38 PM.)7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 175 C E R T I F I C A T E1 I, ERIC S. FISHMAN, a Shorthand Reporter2 and Notary Public of the State of New Jersey do hereby3 certify that the foregoing is a true and accurate4 transcript of the testimony as taken stenographically by5 and before me at the time, place and on the date6 hereinbefore set forth, to the best of my ability.7 I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither a8 relative nor employee nor attorney nor counsel of any of9 the parties to the action; and that I am neither a10 relative nor employee of such attorney or counsel; and11 that I am not financially interested in the action.12 13 14 ---------------------15 ERIC S. FISHMAN, S.R.16 17 18 Dated:__________________19 20 21 22 23 24 25