June 30, 2025, Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

08/07/2025 02:56:42 PM Page 93 to 96 of 175 24 of 70 sheets 93 N.J.S.A. 40:55D-10. Hearings. Section D. "The1 testimony of all witnesses relating to an application2 for development shall be taken under oath or affirmation3 by the presiding officer, and the right of4 cross-examination shall be permitted to all interested5 parties through their attorneys, if represented, or6 directly, if not represented, subject to the discretion7 of the presiding officer and to reasonable limitations8 as to time and number of witnesses."9 All right. So --10 MR. AFRAN: I don't have that in front of11 me. May I see a copy for a moment.12 MS. McGOVERN: The statute?13 MR. AFRAN: Yeah.14 MS. McGOVERN: This the Cox Book but it's15 the statute at the back, NJA-40:55D-10, Hearings. And16 Section D.17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: We're going to take18 minutes for Mr. Afran to take a look at this.19 MR. AFRAN: I am not sure I understand. It20 says, The testimony of all witness relating to --"21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Afran, please speak22 into the microphone.23 MR. AFRAN: It says, Subsection D,24 40:55-10D, as in David. "The testimony of all witnesses25 94 relating to an application for development shall be1 taken under oath or affirmation by the presiding2 officer. And the right of cross examination shall be3 permitted to all interested parties through their4 attorneys, if represented, or directly if not5 represented, subject to the discretion of the presiding6 officer." It doesn't say that an objector7 representative can only testify through questions from8 counsel. What it says in that respect is that9 cross-examination of witnesses will take place by their10 attorneys, if represented, or directly by the cross11 examiner if there's no attorney. Nowhere does it say12 the attorney has to question the objector witness.13 MS. McGOVERN: I'm going to disagree.14 MR. AFRAN: I'm reading the exact words.15 MS. McGOVERN: I don't have it in front of16 me.17 MR. AFRAN: Now you do.18 MS. McGOVERN: The officer -- there's a19 variety of sections that talk about the way a hearing20 proceeds.21 MR. AFRAN: Well, you were citing D and I'm22 reading D.23 MS. McGOVERN: Right above it, "The officer24 presiding at the hearing or such person as he may25 95 designate shall have power to administer oaths and issue1 subpoenas to compel the attendance of witnesses and the2 production of relevant evidence."3 It is the board

ring or such person as he may25 95 designate shall have power to administer oaths and issue1 subpoenas to compel the attendance of witnesses and the2 production of relevant evidence."3 It is the board Chairman's discretion as to4 the method of the meeting and the order of the meeting.5 And if the board Chair wants public comment at the6 conclusion that's when it's going to be. And that's7 what we're trying to determine here. You're8 representing a group, you already introduced individuals9 to give testimony on your case, therefore in a court, in10 this hearing, which is quasi judicial, this is typically11 the way the procedure that, I've been doing this for12 over 20 years and I'm sure you've been doing this just13 as long if not longer. That is the standard procedure.14 MR. AFRAN: All it says is that the15 presiding officer controls the meeting. That doesn't16 mean that power can be used to stop a witness.17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Afran.18 MS. McGOVERN: We're not stopping him.19 MR. AFRAN: Well, doesn't mean the power --20 MS. McGOVERN: Just keeping the order of the21 proceeding.22 MR. AFRAN: There's nothing that prevents an23 objector representative from giving the objector24 organizations viewpoint as to why it's here. If you25 96 want to block that, block it. I'm saying he has the1 right to do it.2 MS. McGOVERN: That's not what I'm saying.3 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Afran, we're going to4 let him testify. We'll make sure to the best of our5 ability that this is testimony and not public comment.6 MR. AFRAN: And I would submit there's no7 distinction but I understand your concern.8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Plocker.9 MR. PLOCKER: Just for the record, we have10 no prolem with Mr. Afran calling Mr. Tractenberg.11 Obviously he's an officer of We Care organization and I12 believe before the public hearings even started last13 July, coming upon a year, Mr. Tractenberg, while he was14 identified as an officer along with other individuals,15 those people have not, and I respect that they have not16 asked questions to the witnesses. We do not dispute17 that Mr. Tractenberg as an officer of We Care, even if18 he was not an officer, that he has the right to be19 called, but it is within the board -- the Chairman's20 discretion to hear, you know, what type of testimony he21 is offering and I believe that it's reasonable to let22 him begin whatever he's going to say. I would

is within the board -- the Chairman's20 discretion to hear, you know, what type of testimony he21 is offering and I believe that it's reasonable to let22 him begin whatever he's going to say. I would argue23 that if he has factual observations regarding the site,24 the area, conditions, things relevant to what this board25