July 30, 2025, Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

9 of 33 sheets Page 33 to 36 of 130 09/16/2025 06:29:53 AM 33 use, is water needed for fire suppression purposes?1 Oh, absolutely.2 A. Now, have you considered this site plan3 Q. application in the engineering report with respect to4 fire suppression and water?5 There were no provisions.6 A. When you say, no provisions, no provisions for7 Q. what?8 Well, there should be a sprinkler system, fire9 A. hydrants. There was nothing shown anywhere that I could10 find.11 Is there any source for water for fire12 Q. suppression shown in the plans?13 No.14 A. Now, what role does a water tower play typically15 Q. in fire suppression?16 It provides you with a period of time when a fire17 A. is discovered we're you're assured of having enough line18 to quench the fire. You could have an issue where19 electric goes down because the fire was started by let's20 say lightning and it knocks out the power, now you can't21 get any water pressure without pumps. So now with the22 tower you got, let's say a good hour worth of, or more,23 depending on how big the tower is, I didn't get into,24 you know, exactly how big the tower has to be, but25 34 that's a whole other study that they should have done.1 But the tower gives you assurance that you got water2 pressure from the hydraulic or from the height of the --3 the height of the tower gives you water pressure. Okay.4 Without a pump. Now, you got to pump it up to get it5 into the tower and you maintain a level in the tower.6 So when you need that water it's available. It's also7 available during that peak hour, peak hours everyday8 when everybody's, you know, waking up and using water.9 You mean it's available not from the fire10 Q. suppression tower but from the normal supply?11 Well --12 A. Or you mean from the tower?13 Q. The tower can provide water for all purposes.14 A. So aside from --15 Q. It has to be designed for that. I didn't attempt16 A. to do that. I'm just saying it's not there, something17 has to be done to address all those issues, including18 all the fire protection rules. There's a lot of them.19 Do you have a minimum estimate or conservative20 Q. estimate for how many gallons would formally be required21 in the fire suppression tower?22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Is he an expert in fire23 suppression?24 THE WITNESS: No.25 35 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Are you representing he's1 an expert or has expertise in fire suppression?2 MR.

re suppression tower?22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Is he an expert in fire23 suppression?24 THE WITNESS: No.25 35 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Are you representing he's1 an expert or has expertise in fire suppression?2 MR. AFRAN: Well, he's a civil engineer3 who's --4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I'm asking the civil5 engineer --6 THE WITNESS: No, I'm not claiming to be an7 expert in fire protection. No.8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. So you have no9 expertise in fire suppression?10 THE WITNESS: But I know enough about it to11 tell you that they didn't, they don't have anything to12 address the problem.13 MR. AFRAN: Fire suppression --14 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: That's what I asked. I15 asked, is he an expert in fire suppression and he said16 he's not.17 MR. AFRAN: Yes, but he's an expert in civil18 engineering.19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Right.20 MR. AFRAN: And civil engineering requires,21 under the New Jersey law and case law is very clear,22 including POP Franklin Township, for example, which has23 been cited many times with approval, which is an24 Appellate Division decision from 1983. That all25 36 fundamental elements of a development must be included1 in detail and specification in the site plan.2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: That's what I asked.3 MR. AFRAN: No, but allow me to continue.4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Go right ahead.5 MR. AFRAN: Therefor, even though he's not a6 so-called fire suppression expert, he's not a sewer7 expert, he's not a water expert either. He's an expert8 in civil engineering and civil engineering in our state9 under the MLUL requires that in a site plan for a10 development the fundamental elements of the plan must be11 presented to the Planning Board.12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Agreed.13 MR. AFRAN: And these fundamental areas are14 not there. That's all he's testifying to.15 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: No, he's also talking16 about how much water is the fire in a tower --17 MR. AFRAN: I'll withdraw the question.18 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you.19 MR. AFRAN: I'm scanning my notes just to20 avoid a problem.21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: No problem.22 Now, assuming the Canoe Brook, you referred to23 Q. the brook, but accept my representation that you're24 referring to the Canoe Brook.25