September 17, 2025, Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 21 shouldn't have had to explain this to them but we did in our subsequent letter. We showed them that our values that we had we could have used much, much higher than we actually used. COUNCILWOMAN SCARPA: Okay. Thank you. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Cardoza, do you have a question for Mr. Seel on his testimony? MR. CARDOZA: Not at this time Chairman. MR. KLEIN: One follow-up. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Klein. MR. KLEIN: So let me just ask you this, Mr. Seel. Did Princeton Hydro find any mistakes in your report, your calculations, that you would have to go back and make changes to? THE WITNESS: No. MR. KLEIN: Anything as far as assumptions go, conservative versus liberal versus anything like that where you have to go back and make some recalculations? THE WITNESS: No, we maintained all along that our analysis is correct. And Princeton's, their second -- or their second letter dated August 12 provides an analysis that shows that our, our analysis, I think the slope is stable, is correct. But despite that they maintain other concerns.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. MacNeill, do you have a question for Mr. Seel on his testimony? MR. MacNEILL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a couple of questions. So after reviewing additional information within Princeton Hydro's reports, would you recommend any improvements to the slope? Do you see any need to provide any improvements on the slope to ensure stability? THE WITNESS: No, the slope is currently stable. There's no loading to the slope from the building. There's no need for a stabilization of any sort. MR. MacNEILL: Okay. So to piggyback off of that, would you recommend or do you see a need for any additional soil testing analysis that would change any of your recommendations or opinions in your report? THE WITNESS: No. MR. MacNEILL: Okay. That's all I have. Thank you. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Okay. I am going to ask Mr. Afran, do you have a question, sir? MR. AFRAN: Not at this time. We of course

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 23 would wait for the board's engineer report on similar subjects and we may come back then with some response from Mr. Goll at that time. I would note one evidentiary issue. I have no objection to the two slides on the screen coming in as an exhibit, but much of the report contains material that wasn't gone into Mr. Seel's testimony just now. So I don't think the report itself is evidence, except to the extent it refers to things he testified to. So if the report is proposed as an exhibit I would say that only those parts are deemed evidence that refer to -- relate to what was testified to, not all of what's in the report is the subject of Mr. Seel's testimony. MR. PLOCKER: Respectfully -- CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Plocker. MR. PLOCKER: There have been many reports served by the objector group, many reports by us, we aren't bound by the rules of evidence as if we're in a Superior Court case. We have no problem with the board reviewing every single word that the objectors reports state. And unless you would like him, and waste more time, to read every single word of his letter, which he's very capable of doing, I would ask that Mr. Afran just agree that reports become part of the record, on both sides.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 24 MR. AFRAN: I stated my objection and obviously it's the Chairs discretion. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Any objection? MS. MCGOVERN: As you know, the rules of evidence are the -- technically the rules of evidence don't apply to the Planning Board, there's some leeway here. Mr. Seel, do you adopt your report as if you were to testify regarding every word in that report? THE WITNESS: I am not citing every word, I am giving a sense. MS. MCGOVERN: I understand. Did you prepare the report? THE WITNESS: Yes, I did. MS. MCGOVERN: And you reviewed it? THE WITNESS: I did. MS. MCGOVERN: And you standby it as truthful? THE WITNESS: Correct. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Based on your license in the State of New Jersey? THE WITNESS: Correct. MS. MCGOVERN: I, I don't know if you think there's anything stopping the board from accepting the report.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 25 MR. AFRAN: The boards discretion is its own. I simply stated an objection. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Unless any member of the board objects, I recommend we adopt this report and it's open to the public and posted on the website. MR. AFRAN: When you say adopt, you mean admit into evidence? CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Admit into evidence. MR. AFRAN: Thank you. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. Do any member of the public have any questions of Mr. Seel, specifically on the information that he proffered this evening? Okay, we're going to focus on what he proffered this evening. You may ask questions, you have three minutes. Please state you name for the record. THE PUBLIC: Deborah Butensky, the Grande at West Orange. So my question is -- CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, thank you. THE PUBLIC: My question is, how are you, meaning the developer, recommending the developer excavate? MR. PLOCKER: I'm going to object. I think his testimony was clear, that Mr. Seel nor his firm make

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 that determination. It is determined by the contractor in the field and as we represented before, in accordance with all state and local regulations. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Seel didn't testify to that. THE PUBLIC: It's relevant because they don't have to necessarily use blasting to get the footings 40 feet down. THE WITNESS: I didn't say anything about the depth. THE PUBLIC: Well, you said that in order to get them under -- can you go back to the other slide. You were talking about going down 40 feet. THE WITNESS: No, I wasn't talking about going down 40 feet. The 40-foot was just, it was a demarcation of a random depth of the stress that the rock would feel from a footing. THE PUBLIC: Explain that? THE WITNESS: The -- THE PUBLIC: Well, the real question is, when you guys have to put in the underground parking, the subterranean parking, and that was distal to where you showed it. It's closer to the southern part of Building D. How is that going to affect -- because you got 125 units or so on that building and you're

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 27 proposing parking, how does that destabilize or not according to your testimony? THE WITNESS: The cross section was developed by the architect not by my firm, we just simply used it for illustration purposes. I didn't -- it is where it is. THE PUBLIC: No, it's relevance is that you're going deep down -- THE WITNESS: You're as deep going as 20 -- THE PUBLIC: -- and excavating for parking. That's what I'm trying to understand. How is that not destabilizing the slope? You're digging into the rock to get -- THE WITNESS: We're digging into the rock directly below the building. The slope is 40 to 60 feet away. THE PUBLIC: At some point it's only seven feet away. THE WITNESS: No, it's not. THE PUBLIC: Can you show it again. THE WITNESS: Yeah, the distance of seven feet is the peek at the ridge line. That vertical dashed black line, that is not the slope. MS. MCGOVERN: Can we have the question again.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 28 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Can you ask the question again, please. THE PUBLIC: So the question is, can you demarcate on Building D, your seven feet from the ridge line, how far up into the building from the south to the north does the parking extend? Does the subterranean parking. So you have to excavate out to get there. I'm not understanding. THE WITNESS: Well, I think the excavation, I think, as I understand it, there's a basement below the entire building and there's two depths of excavation -- of basement, I think over in this area. And the rock is basically in this section here. And the proximity of seven feet between the building and this line occurs somewhere up in here. THE PUBLIC: So where is the parking? THE WITNESS: What I understand is it's under this, mostly under this -- THE PUBLIC: Under the whole building? That's what I'm am trying to understand, where the parking is going to be. THE WITNESS: I think it's under the entire building. THE PUBLIC: Right. So at one point you're at seven feet from the slope. You have no excavating --

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 29 THE WITNESS: Where -- there's seven feet from this line, which is in -- this is not representative of that representation. Maybe if you go to the next slide, please. I think it's more representative of this, where you're closer to seven feet from, if this building is translated forward, it would be seven feet back in here. So you're flat up in this area, the building is seven feet behind it, you're still back up the slope. You're not excavating into the slope, you're excavating vertically. THE PUBLIC: You're excavating as close to seven feet from the slope? THE WITNESS: No, we're not excavating -- they are not going to be excavating as close as seven feet from the slope. They're excavating seven feet from this line. That is not -- the slope is down over here. THE PUBLIC: Well, the slope goes up to the line. THE WITNESS: This is flat right here. The ground is flat right here. You can see the section. So you're excavating seven feet over on this side and you're going straight down, so you're not touching the slope. THE PUBLIC: You're at the top -- you're at the top of some of the slope, and we're questioning

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 30 things, but the point is, it is very close, seven feet, and you have disrupted all this fill, all this rock, bedrock to get the parking. You're telling me that it's not going to destabilize the slope, that's what you testified. THE WITNESS: That is exactly what I testified to. THE PUBLIC: Okay. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. THE PUBLIC: God help. MR. KLEIN: Can I have a follow-up quickly. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: One second. Mr. Klein. MR. KLEIN: Mr. Seel, the deeper you go, the deeper you go, where you go basement and parking garage, that blue trapezoid is going to deeper? THE WITNESS: Yeah. You could barely see it but there's a line under here which is the lowest basement, so this trapezoid could start lower now. MR. KLEIN: Correct. THE WITNESS: Because you're further from the slope. MR. KLEIN: And if you were to take that whole trapezoid and building and slide it over seven feet from the dashed line --