September 17, 2025, Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 51 rock, you put this material in and then it creates a chemical reaction and ultimately breaks the rock. And there's, similarly there's hydro-splitters where you drill holes into the rock, you put this magnetizing devise in and split the rock. There's many different ways to break rock. THE PUBLIC: So can you quickly put the photo up of the diagram that you had earlier that showed the hill. So, so these elements are put into the ground to assist in the blasting, so there's less blasting in the excavation? THE WITNESS: In the excavation. If you zoom in please on this area down here I could probably illustrate. THE PUBLIC: And is this thing called the knob, somebody had mentioned the knob earlier? THE WITNESS: So for the sake of this discussion, we ultimately say that this material that, from here down to the base of this excavation, this is rock. Whether -- regardless of the excavation technique it would be a vertical excavation. They would drill a hole, it would be break the rock in vertical, in vertical sections using any one of these techniques. THE PUBLIC: Okay. So all that stuff goes in and it helps to

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 52 bust out all this rock? THE WITNESS: Correct. THE PUBLIC: Okay. So I'm not going -- I'm not a chemist, I spent my whole life in the media and advertising business and I know nothing about this. But I know that crack flows downhill and my family drinks, and tens of thousands of other people are going to be drinking all this stuff. So my concern -- CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Sir, ask the question. You can raise concerns at public comment. Ask a question. THE PUBLIC: But this is to the point. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. Good. THE PUBLIC: Is from, and you're an environmental engineer with a masters from Stevens, if I have my notes correct here, how are we going to prevent all of this at the headwaters of the Canoe Brook from going into the Canoe Brook and going downstream into the water that we're drinking if we're using chemical expanders and other methods in addition to the other concerns of the blasting. I mean, it's one other concern. So how do we -- if we're, like what, I don't know, the aluminum and the other stuff, I don't have the time now, right, to hear this?

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 53 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I'm listening. We're listening. So basically the question is, you have not testified to the exact way to do this, is that correct? THE WITNESS: Correct, I haven't, so -- right. So just to clarify -- CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: He offered options. THE WITNESS: I have not testified how this would be done. I simply identified in the report how -- the typical methods that are utilized for excavation. The contractor must choose based on the available information and within the regulations of using these materials how to use them and what's the best application. MR. PLOCKER: And is it possible that more than one method is used depending on the area? THE WITNESS: It is. It could be any combination I testified to and written in the report. It could be any combination of such methods. THE PUBLIC: But we all should be having an Erin Brockovich moment here. THE WITNESS: Well, these products are used universally and I am not aware of any hazardous effects with them as long as they're used properly and under controlled conditions, so. THE PUBLIC: Thank you.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 54 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Any other members of the public have any questions for Mr. Seel on testimony? Please come up, get identified and you have three minutes. THE PUBLIC: Hello everybody. My name is Jerry Companion and I work in construction for about 20 years, so I know what's going on, all about the drainage system, sewer lines and I am asking, do we have a schematic or a blueprint on the soil lines or piping going from the building to the sewer system that exists already? THE WITNESS: I don't have one. THE PUBLIC: Can that be presented to the public? MR. PLOCKER: We have already provided testimony regarding the sewer system. THE PUBLIC: Yes, sir. Thank you. And the other thing is, chemical expansion. You just explained to the other gentleman what the chemicals are all about, but will the public be getting an MSDS? THE WITNESS: I would imagine they, if the contractor uses that, they will have an MSDS sheet. If there's any reporting requirements that would be provided.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 55 THE PUBLIC: Okay. So that's a definite. Any chemicals -- CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ladies and gentlemen, a MSDS is a Materials Safety Data Sheet. So it describes what the chemical is and all the known inferences about that chemical. I just want everybody to know what MSDS is. THE PUBLIC: Thank you for that. Thanks. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Sure thing. Go right ahead, sir. THE PUBLIC: And so that would be presented if that choice is made by using this chemical expansion? THE WITNESS: I would imagine so. THE PUBLIC: Well, it has to be, because that's required by the state and local government. MR. PLOCKER: For the record, Mr. Seel and his firm are not the contractor. THE PUBLIC: Excuse me. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Say that again. MR. PLOCKER: For the record, Mr. Seel testified that it's not his firm that would be the contractor. I just wanted to make it clear that he didn't represent that he would be the contractor who would be the one responsible for that, but thank you very much for bringing that up.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 56 THE PUBLIC: Thank you for the answer. MR. PLOCKER: Thank you. THE PUBLIC: Thank you for your time. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you, sir. Do any other members of the public have any questions for Mr. Seel on his testimony? Three minutes. Come up and be identified. THE PUBLIC: Justin Goldman. You had mentioned in your initial remarks that there was the possibility of different methods for excavation. You mentioned splitters, chemicals, blasting. THE WITNESS: Correct. THE PUBLIC: Your proposal, your presentation tonight was based on the assumption that the blasting was used. Of using more of the blasting. THE WITNESS: No, I'm not suggesting one method over another. THE PUBLIC: Okay. Is there a way for you to maybe illuminate any of those construction plans, especially with the underground parking units in a differential like based on blasting, if a chemical is used, if, you know, splitters are used and how that would impact the difference on the plan?

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 57 THE WITNESS: I don't understand your question. I'm not following you. THE PUBLIC: Will the proposed parking deck alter in any way dependent upon the technique of excavation? THE PUBLIC: I would not imagine that it would. The intent is too build what's shown on the construction plans, whenever those are finalized. And the means and methods chosen by the contractor have to achieve that. THE PUBLIC: I'm just asking, I don't know if that's forcing everything to shift depending on if you use a chemical, that's all I was asking. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Any other members of the public have a question? Please come up, be identified. You have three minutes. THE PUBLIC: Good evening. Joyce Rudin. You testified in you response to a question that in regard to noise from blasting, are there regulations in New Jersey that require contractors to give notice before blasting and set blasting schedules? THE WITNESS: Yes, there'll be -- there are public notifications that must be -- they're mandatory,

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 58 that would be made and all that information would be shared. THE PUBLIC: Can you confirm whether or not the noise levels during blasting reach between 120 and 140 decibels at the blast? CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: He didn't testify to that. THE PUBLIC: I know he didn't. I'm just asking him, he testified that blasting does not cause so much noise. So I'm asking if -- THE WITNESS: I testified that the blasting, if it's done properly, doesn't create the levels of noise that I'm hearing are a concern. THE PUBLIC: So what level of noise would you describe it as? THE WITNESS: We're talking qualitatively, it could sound like a boom. THE PUBLIC: A boom? THE WITNESS: If it's done properly, yes. THE PUBLIC: Like a boom during a war time boom? THE WITNESS: No. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. I'm going to stop this. We're going off on a tangent. So he testified -- wait one second. He testified that he's not representing the company doing the blasting. He's not

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 59 testifying as to exactly how it's going to be done, which I think is the question you are asking. We're going down a rabbit hole that he doesn't have the right answer too. So asking these questions is, he's the wrong person and I don't want the public or the board to get answers that are not in his expertise. MR. PLOCKER: And to confirm the councilwoman's question, I just want to confirm that we do have the affirmative obligation to provide full notice and schedule and we will live up to that obligation. THE PUBLIC: He did testify in terms of the sound quality and that's what I was referencing. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: But he didn't testify to the decibel and which you also asked that question. THE PUBLIC: No, he did not. But he used the word boom, so I was trying to understand -- CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, I understand. We're going down a rabbit hole. THE PUBLIC: What does he mean by a boom? CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You're going down a rabbit hole again. THE PUBLIC: Can you respond to what you meant by stating it would be a boom? THE WITNESS: Simply trying to differentiate

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 60 between what I'm understanding the public concerns are over these noise levels versus what the actual controlled blast sounds like and there's a very dramatic, without trying to qualify what that sound is, I would say that it's not, it's, it lacks the effect that I'm hearing is of concern. THE PUBLIC: Would a boom cause vibration? THE WITNESS: Well, the pressure through the rock is what causes vibrations. THE PUBLIC: So, yes, they would be vibrations? THE WITNESS: There's vibration generated by a blast, yes. There's vibration generated by drilling. There's vibrations generated by a lot of construction activities and the magnitude of those varies by the source and by using controlled blasting techniques you're limiting the amount of charge per each delay in the blast that gets out into the rock and by using additional controlled techniques where you create line or channel drilling you don't, the pressure doesn't propagate beyond that. It gets controlled. THE PUBLIC: Could the ground vibrations affect the residents who are living closest to this site? THE WITNESS: Well, by affect you mean would