November 10, 2025 Planning Board Special Meeting - WEHI Transcript

17 of 28 sheets Page 65 to 68 of 112 01/05/2026 03:19:18 PM 65 Okay.1 Q. But --2 A. There may be a rain slide?3 Q. But nothing to date has been identified that that4 A. actually would occur.5 Do you know one way or another whether this6 Q. condition exists inside that slope right now?7 No, I don't.8 A. And you're positive as a professional engineer9 Q. that is something we need to consider, isn't that10 correct?11 I did.12 A. Thank you.13 Q. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Klein.14 MR. KLEIN: So you were talking about when15 they excavate for the garage, right? Go down for that16 building and they have to make sure to dewater that17 excavation area. And when they see a fissure or a crack18 in the, I guess it's basalt section, whatever it is,19 they're going to grout it to keep any water from getting20 into that and by dewatering it and grouting it no water21 will go down in it and create this 50-foot edge and22 start giving way to the slope, is that correct?23 THE WITNESS: Right. What we're24 recommending is a prudent approach --25 66 MR. KLEIN: Right.1 THE WITNESS: -- to conditions that could,2 but we don't know actually exist.3 MR. KLEIN: Right. Right. So assuming they4 exist there's ways to keep it from failing. Grouting,5 dewatering, correct?6 THE WITNESS: Correct.7 MR. KLEIN: All right.8 And at present are there any mitigation measures9 Q. by way of redirecting that stormwater away from the10 slope area behind Building D to your knowledge in the11 plan?12 Well, we're recommending that the applicants13 A. engineer take a look at it and come up with mitigation.14 Okay. I want to clarify that. Thank you.15 Q. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Klein.16 MR. KLEIN: Mr. Kleinberg, are we mixing up17 two different things. Is, after the building is built18 there's going to be drainage and there's going to be19 collection of stormwater. While the building is under20 construction there's going to be dewatering and grouting21 and whatever they need to keep that excavation from22 gathering water and letting that water get into these23 cracks and --24 THE WITNESS: Correct.25 67 MR. KLEIN: Talking about two different1 things?2 THE WITNESS: Yes, two different things.3 MR. AFRAN: What do you mean by, two4 different things?5 MR. KLEIN: During construction and post6 construction.7 MR. AFRAN: No.8 MR. KLEIN: What are you asking about?9 MR. AFRAN: That's what I'm trying to find10 out. I'm trying

n by, two4 different things?5 MR. KLEIN: During construction and post6 construction.7 MR. AFRAN: No.8 MR. KLEIN: What are you asking about?9 MR. AFRAN: That's what I'm trying to find10 out. I'm trying to find where the concern of the11 engineer lies. That's the point of my question.12 MR. KLEIN: Okay.13 So the question then is, are there mitigation14 Q. measures that you think the applicants engineer should15 look at necessarily for the permanency of the project or16 just during construction or both?17 Well, for groundwater infiltration it's for the18 A. permanency.19 Thank you. That was my question.20 Q. Talking about mottling, you said there was a21 difference of approach or of analysis between Princeton22 Hydro and Langan and I think you mentioned that Langan23 is the less rigorous engineering approach to the24 question of the color conclusion?25 68 They did not use the Munsell Ink and I'm not 1001 A. percent sure it would have been necessary to use it2 either, but they said they did not see mottling.3 Well, you said that they did a different type of4 Q. color analysis?5 Well, no. This is brown sand, red sand, blue sand6 A. or there's -- the Munsell System gets much more7 involved.8 DEP is the standard of care in this field in New9 Q. Jersey, correct?10 For, for determining a seasonal high water table11 A. for the purpose of mitigation of the infiltration.12 And evaluating mottling, DEPs Munsell chart is13 Q. the appropriate standard, is that correct?14 Right. For the purpose of the stormwater15 A. management, it's not necessarily done for routine16 engineering work.17 But in terms of seeing that infiltration basins18 Q. are correctly constructed and designed the Munsell19 standard is the one DEP wants to see?20 Because, I think, I'm not an expert in this, I21 A. think it's just they have to determine the spacing22 between the bottom of the infiltration basin and the23 seasonal high water table.24 Right, of course.25 Q.