November 10, 2025 Planning Board Special Meeting - WEHI Transcript

01/05/2026 03:19:18 PM Page 69 to 72 of 112 18 of 28 sheets 69 And that's an entirely different purpose.1 A. Right. I'm just asking -- you raised the issue2 Q. of the Munsell chart in your initial presentation, so3 I'm just trying to clarify. DEP says use the Munsell4 chart to evaluate if mottling exists, isn't that5 correct?6 Yeah, for the purpose of determining how high the7 A. infiltration basin is. They're not talking about slope8 disability.9 That's the only reason we're talking about it,10 Q. because it infiltrates the basin at the seasonal high11 water table, correct?12 Well, it has to be a certain distance above the13 A. high water table.14 That's why we're talking about mottling and15 Q. that's why Langan and that's why Princeton hydro talked16 about mottling?17 But on the slope it's not always a concern.18 A. Mr. Kleinberg, I am not talking about the slope,19 Q. you raised the issue of the Munsell chart with respect20 to the infiltration basins, that's what I am talking21 about.22 I was trying to compare the difference in23 A. approach between Princeton Hydro and Langan. Princeton24 hydro went to the extent of talking about the mottling25 70 and so I just addressed what is the difference between1 the two engineers approaches.2 Princeton Hydro followed the DEP Munsell chart,3 Q. Langan followed a different approach, correct?4 Correct.5 A. Thank you.6 Q. What does it mean when you say, at Page 18,7 Langan is questioning the assumed stratification stating8 that it does not consider dense sands on that section9 which were indicated by the board. Can you explain what10 it means?11 On the, on their analysis Section CC, which is12 A. near, I think that's 13. It's above the property, I13 think identified as 13 Howell Drive. That Princeton14 Hydro assumed that there would be medium dense sands15 down to the top of rock, but the borings that Langan did16 indicated that there were dense sands there.17 Oh, so I see. You're saying here that Langan18 Q. questions what hydro said because it saw -- what it saw19 was denser sand?20 Right.21 A. That's all that means?22 Q. Right. And they said that what Princeton Hydro23 A. assumed didn't reflect what they encountered.24 Are you offering your conclusion on this position25 Q. 71 or are you just reporting what the two sides said?1 I am just reporting what the two sides said.2 A. Do you think the appropriate section of

4 Are you offering your conclusion on this position25 Q. 71 or are you just reporting what the two sides said?1 I am just reporting what the two sides said.2 A. Do you think the appropriate section of the Army3 Q. Corps Manual is Section 1110-2-1902 which uses the 1.54 figure?5 Right, that's their slope stability manual.6 A. And you're saying this type of project where it's7 Q. located that would be the appropriate standard?8 Yes.9 A. Now, it's true that Section 3-4 Sub E of that10 Q. section actually requires that, if I could just get to11 that. Well, it says E-1 --12 MR. AFRAN: Mr. Chairman, let me have one13 moment. I'm sorry.14 Section E-1 states the following; "Instability of15 Q. natural slopes is often related to high internal water16 pressures associated with wet weather periods. It is17 appropriate to analyze such conditions as long-term18 steady state seepage conditions using drain strengths19 and the highest probable position of the piezometric20 surface within the slope." Now, that's in the section21 of the manual that you say is applicable here. Is that22 referring to the study that you recommended or asked for23 in which you say at number 6, "The applicants engineer24 should pose and perform a stability evaluation using a25 72 conservative piesometric surface that would reflect the1 response of ground water to heavy storm influenced2 rainfall."3 Yes.4 A. Your recommendation is based on that section of5 Q. the manual, 3.4 E-1?6 I -- it stems from the same, the conventional7 A. approach.8 Now, and that's what you say Langan says it has9 Q. but hasn't given you?10 I don't know exactly what it has. I haven't seen11 A. it yet.12 Let me ask you this, if it is in the manual, in13 Q. the section of the manual that applies to projects of14 this nature, wouldn't that be the standard of care that15 Langan should have followed to begin with?16 I'm not necessarily sure of that.17 A. But you recommend following it with respect to18 Q. this study?19 If I was doing the analysis I would do it and20 A. that's why we mentioned it.21 Well, you didn't mention it, you said this is one22 Q. of the things you want them to do, isn't that correct?23 This is one of the things you want them to do, right?24 Yes.25 A.