November 10, 2025 Planning Board Special Meeting - WEHI Transcript

23 of 28 sheets Page 89 to 92 of 112 01/05/2026 03:19:18 PM 89 Okay. If that's the simple question, the final1 A. design is not in front of us now.2 And here's another simple question. Is it a3 Q. fundamental engineering element of a plan to know that4 it will have adequate displacement to avoid5 destabilizing the slope, "yes" or "no"? Is that, is6 that a fundamental engineering element of a plan.7 I am not trying to avoid answering the question.8 A. I don't know.9 Q. Your question is kind of cockamamie.10 A. You think so?11 Q. So I don't quite know how to answer that12 A. question.13 Is it a fundamental engineering element to know14 Q. there's adequate displacement of the structure to avoid15 destabilizing a slope?16 Yes.17 A. Thank you.18 Q. MR. KLEIN: Can I ask a follow up.19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Klein.20 MR. KLEIN: When do you need no fundamental21 engineering to know the bearing capacity and the weight22 of the building for the final design of the footings?23 THE WITNESS: For the final design. When it24 goes to final design.25 90 MR. KLEIN: Right. And if you had to, you1 may have to drive piles, you may have to -- you could2 always design a footing that will bear the weight of a3 building?4 THE WITNESS: There's stages of design and5 this is very preliminary where you run on average area6 building loads, as Langan had done in this case, and it7 is in my opinion suitable to do that.8 MR. KLEIN: So a thousand pounds per square9 foot is a little bit conservatively high or is it --10 THE WITNESS: No, it's not conservatively11 high, but it's in the range.12 MR. KLEIN: Okay.13 Do you have any idea what they plan on, other14 Q. than that model that they spoke to?15 What model?16 A. Withdraw the question.17 Q. Well, I'm not going to pursue that subject18 anymore, we've exhausted it. Our view is it is a legal19 question, the question of what the board needs to have20 and when and I don't know that the engineer himself is21 the one to decide that issue. We believe it's a legal22 question, that the board has a duty under the MLUL to23 ascertain for itself all material elements of safety and24 public interest in the plan. And in this particular25 91 instance it is our position that because it is to be1 both on and near a slope that could destabilize based on2 a design or other issues that that is a fundamental3 issue that must be known by the board, even though

our position that because it is to be1 both on and near a slope that could destabilize based on2 a design or other issues that that is a fundamental3 issue that must be known by the board, even though other4 issues may not be of such material moment that the board5 needs to know all of them. Where the question arises6 that a building if not properly displaced could7 destabilize a slope, in our view legally that is what8 the MLUL says is information that must be heard by the9 board. So it's our position that that cannot be10 submitted legally later as a condition of approval or11 leave it for the construction office. This board must12 know that the public is protected by the nature of the13 design, that's why we are here. If we didn't need to do14 that but leave it to the construction official virtually15 all the issues we talk about wouldn't be necessary. So16 it's our legal position, and we can discuss this later17 in the case, that it is not adequate to say well, it can18 be supplied later after approval. Our position is the19 Municipal Land Use Law requires as a matter of law all20 information relating to the public safety to be known by21 the board if it's of a material nature and certainly22 where a building could destabilize a slope if it's not23 adequately displaced that is not preliminary, that is24 your responsibility to know in advance. That is our25 92 legal position. That's why I've asked you these1 questions and I understand the engineer has his view,2 legally we say you must have this information. We can3 discuss this when it is appropriate in the case, perhaps4 closing arguments.5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. As the hour6 grows late, Mr. Afran.7 MR. AFRAN: Well, I could leave it for now,8 obviously.9 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: The public also has10 questions.11 MR. PLOCKER: Chairman Bagoff.12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Plocker.13 MR. PLOCKER: It's nine minutes left, I just14 have two or three questions, kind of while the iron is15 hot. Would that be okay?16 MR. AFRAN: Of course.17 MR. PLOCKER: Oh, thank you.18 MR. AFRAN: Mr. Plocker identifies himself19 as the board, I have no objection.20 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Mr. Plocker.21 Okay.22 Q. Thank you, Mr. Kleinberg. I will be very brief.23 I believe the additional model, with a D, testing at the24 surface that you represented you said they didn't. I do25