December 10, 2025, Planning Board Special Meeting - WEHI Transcript

01/14/2026 10:36:25 AM Page 5 to 8 of 144 2 of 55 sheets 5 examination?1 I did. The name of the manual is, which is, I2 A. think, the question I couldn't recall when we were3 discussing it, is Rock Foundations. And, and so it's,4 in reading a little bit further in preparation for the5 meeting I maintain my opinion that the manual doesn't6 apply for the particular case that we are discussing7 here.8 And you're referring to the section of the manual9 Q. headed, Rock Foundations, which also includes the10 Chapter 7 references to a 1.5 safety factor and the 2.011 factor in Section 8-13A, which I directed you to and12 also began that "rock foundation" section?13 It is. I have them in front of me.14 A. Great. Thank you.15 Q. Now, there doesn't seem to be a definition, to my16 reading in the manual, as to what would be a rock slope17 versus a soil slope. So in your mind any way is there a18 definition you're relying on to categorize this one way19 or the other?20 Well, I think in comparison a rock slope, and I21 A. think it's described in the ordinance, it would be a22 cliff face and you don't have a cliff face here.23 There's another situation in West Orange that I am aware24 of where there is a cliff face, might be 40-feet of rock25 6 and there was recently a failure in that slope.1 Well, you're relying on what you think is a2 Q. definition in the ordinance of a rock slope?3 No, but that was, I was trying to give an example4 A. of, description of the difference. We don't -- this5 slope is soil with some minor protuberances of rock at6 the top of the slope.7 Well, underneath all that soil is rock, correct?8 Q. Right. But the actual slope that you see on the9 A. surface is, is an earth slope.10 Well, most places you'll see some level of earth11 Q. above bedrock, correct?12 In most places, yes. But it's a soil slope13 A. because it's, the stability issues indicate that the14 material controlling the stability is soil and not the15 rock.16 You yourself refer repeatedly in your report to17 Q. the need to be able to evaluate the disturbance of the18 slope, correct?19 Correct.20 A. And you don't categorize that as referring to a21 Q. soil slope in particular, do you, in your report?22 I don't think I categorize it as soil. The slope23 A. as it's shown on the plans.24 And in fact your report, almost all of it, deals25 Q. 7 with analyzing the strength of the basalt rock

our report?22 I don't think I categorize it as soil. The slope23 A. as it's shown on the plans.24 And in fact your report, almost all of it, deals25 Q. 7 with analyzing the strength of the basalt rock and the1 fractures of the rock, is that correct?2 No, that's not correct.3 A. Well, substantial parts of your report deal with4 Q. that?5 And the reason I did that is because that was6 A. the, the substantial part of the debate between the7 applicants and the opposers engineer.8 Because they were debating the strengths and9 Q. merits to the rock slopes, isn't that correct?10 Correct.11 A. Now, in your report do you anywhere say this is a12 Q. soil slope and not a rock slope?13 I am not, I am not sure that I could find that,14 A. but I did not make a distinction in the report from soil15 and rock soil.16 Thank you very much.17 Q. Now, in looking at the Army Manual, you don't see18 a definition of rock slope versus soil slope, do you?19 I don't know that has a specific definition but20 A. it's pretty, it would be pretty clear in my mind when I21 am dealing with rock or soil.22 Well, your mind, I don't mean to be23 Q. disrespectfully, doesn't set the standard of caring of24 professional engineering, but rather the various25 8 treatises and manuals that address these issues. So I'm1 asking you, were the treatises and manuals that you2 relied on in your profession is there this distinction3 between the so-called soil slope and the rock slope, are4 you able to show me that?5 No, I can't show it to you here and now, and I6 A. don't know that, that exits either.7 Okay. Thank you.8 Q. Now, I would like to, we're going to return to9 that but I have some other questions to ask you.10 I think I recall you saying, and I admit we are11 on the third time doing this, so if I am repeating, I12 apologize. If anything you don't recall and you need me13 to repeat it, please let me know as well.14 I think I recall you testifying you did a site15 inspection of some sort, is that correct?16 I did a site visual.17 A. Yes.18 Q. I did not do anything that would qualify as a19 A. detailed investigation.20 Okay. I didn't mean a test, I meant you went to21 Q. observe the site in some way?22 I went to become familiar with conditions, to23 A. look at it to see if there's any obvious symptoms of24 slope instability on the slope which I didn't see. And25