December 10, 2025, Planning Board Special Meeting - WEHI Transcript

01/14/2026 10:36:25 AM Page 13 to 16 of 144 4 of 55 sheets 13 At that point they showed, they showed me, I was1 A. with one of my colleagues. Showed us the mark outs of2 the area of the building, the locations of some of the3 explorations, which were on the surface. They just4 walked along and I, I didn't feel influenced at all one5 way or the other.6 Well, whether you felt influenced or not is one7 Q. thing, but the facts were you were there with only one8 side, is that correct?9 That's correct.10 A. Do you normally do independent evaluations only11 Q. in the presence of one team of experts and not those12 from the other party?13 I'm basically a drawing board engineer. I don't14 A. do a lot of these investigations.15 What do you mean, a drawing board engineer?16 Q. I'm a designer and an analyst.17 A. What are you a designer of?18 Q. Foundations, earth slopes, dams, bridge19 A. foundations, retaining walls, pipe line installations20 and I do evaluations of slope stability too.21 In connection with that type of municipal civic22 Q. work?23 In connection --24 A. I'll repeat the question. Usually that's public25 Q. 14 works you just described, right?1 For the last 20 years it's been mostly public2 A. works.3 Now, have you ever done an independent evaluation4 Q. before?5 Well, I -- yes. I feel I have been independent.6 A. I don't usually get sued one way or another by anybody.7 Well, let me ask you this, if you're only in the8 Q. presence of the experts from one side and not the other9 and you're having a conversation with those experts as10 you go along, how do you know you're not being11 influenced in some way that would be countered if the12 other side were also present?13 I don't know. I lived a long time, I can tell14 A. when I'm being pushed one way or another. I wasn't15 pushed.16 Well, I have been doing this 40 years and usually17 Q. a witness says, well, I lived a along time and says, I18 don't think I was pushed one any or another. The point19 is, you didn't give yourself a chance to be exposed to20 the other side?21 MR. PLOCKER: Objection.22 MR. AFRAN: Why?23 MR. PLOCKER: What he said was he was walked24 around the site.25 15 MR. AFRAN: Come on.1 MR. PLOCKER: Look, I don't want to get into2 it, but clearly he's trying to insinuate that Mr.3 Kleinberg's evaluation was influenced or not4 independent. I believe he said it was. Let him ask him5 again, he

CKER: Look, I don't want to get into2 it, but clearly he's trying to insinuate that Mr.3 Kleinberg's evaluation was influenced or not4 independent. I believe he said it was. Let him ask him5 again, he needed to have him on-site with someone who6 knew the site. Mr. Anderson is the consulting engineer7 to the applicant who knows the site. I was not present,8 a client representative was not present, he walked the9 site. So far we haven't heard one thing that was10 allegedly said or consulted with Mr. Kleinberg. So11 either there was stuff that was said or there wasn't.12 He can be asked that.13 MR. AFRAN: With great respect, repeatedly14 Mr. Kleinberg has stepped back and walked back in stages15 in his report when I challenged him on that and that's16 why I'm asking these questions.17 MR. PLOCKER: I disagree with the18 characterization.19 MR. AFRAN: That's really lovely, we're an20 adversary system, I'm sure Mr. Plocker would disagree21 with many things.22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: And the board will it take23 under advisement from both sides. Move on, please.24 MR. AFRAN: Thank you.25 16 What conversations did you have with the1 Q. applicants engineer, beyond what you testified to? I'm2 asking you to think that through.3 I, I have been, I gave a minute -- I gave a4 A. summary of an e-mail conversation with Langan5 Engineering about the issues that were discussed here at6 the meeting.7 MR. PLOCKER: Mr. Afran, are you talking8 about the site at the site visit?9 Mr. AFRAN: Yeah, I understand your point.10 MR. PLOCKER: I just want to make sure we11 have a clear record.12 MR. AFRAN: I think Mr. Kleinberg may have13 misunderstood the question.14 I was referring to the site visit?15 Q. There were really no conversations, just here's16 A. the building, here's that. I -- there was no discussion17 that, wherein we discussed the details of the site. Of18 the issue.19 You feel it's proper practice to have both sides20 Q. present if you are doing an independent inspection?21 I only viewed this -- do I feel -- if I had, you22 A. know, thought ahead to this moment, I might have done it23 differently, but I am not directing anything in this24 thing. I'm on the staff with the municipal engineer25