December 10, 2025, Planning Board Special Meeting - WEHI Transcript

5 of 55 sheets Page 17 to 20 of 144 01/14/2026 10:36:25 AM 17 company and I went to see the site so I could prepare my1 report and I contacted, not Mr. Anderson directly, we2 contacted the Borough engineer and the Borough engineer3 declined to accompany us. And so that's what -- I don't4 believe I was compromised by anything that took place on5 the visit.6 Well, one of the problems, we only have your word7 Q. for that and your viewpoint. Had my representative been8 present I would have an observant noting what went on9 and what was discussed between all this.10 MS. McGOVERN: That's his testimony under11 oath.12 MR. AFRAN: I don't care whether his13 testimony is under oath.14 MS. McGOVERN: His testimony's under oath.15 MR. AFRAN: The point is, you have no16 business interfering that way, Ms. McGovern. It is17 obvious the witness is under oath.18 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Lower your voice. We're19 trying to -- Mr. Afran, we're are trying to get --20 MR. AFRAN: Now, just at moment.21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: We want to hear you.22 MR. AFRAN: Fine.23 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Please.24 MR. AFRAN: I will reduce my anger at that25 18 point.1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Go right ahead.2 MR. AFRAN: Board counsel has no right to3 interfere at all, number one. Until advice is sought4 from the board.5 Number two, that interjection was6 inappropriate. We all know Mr. Kleinberg is under oath.7 People are under oath all the time and often have their8 own views of things that have to be challenged on9 cross-examination. Ms. McGovern's interjection suggests10 we don't need to challenge a witness because he's under11 oath, that's not the way it works and it's not the way12 it works. To have a witness say, I don't feel I was13 compromised when my representative was not there to14 observe whether in fact he could have been. This is the15 point of my questions.16 Dr. Bagoff, you made a point very vigorously17 saying this would be an independent evaluation and it18 wasn't.19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I understand what you're20 saying.21 Mr. Plocker.22 MR. PLOCKER: Very briefly. I don't want to23 keep objecting but to the extent that the question keeps24 asking about your discussions with, I would object to25 19 that term in light of Mr. Kleinberg previously offering1 testimony.2 MR. AFRAN: Who's discussion? I'm sorry, I3 didn't hear your objection.4 MR. PLOCKER: You referenced his discussion5 with people at the site during

ght of Mr. Kleinberg previously offering1 testimony.2 MR. AFRAN: Who's discussion? I'm sorry, I3 didn't hear your objection.4 MR. PLOCKER: You referenced his discussion5 with people at the site during the visit and I believe6 he didn't say he did not have any discussions.7 MR. AFRAN: No, he did say he had discussed8 various places of interest in the applicants engineers9 viewpoint.10 MR. PLOCKER: My objection is stated for the11 record.12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you.13 Mr. Afran, go right ahead.14 MR. AFRAN: Thank you.15 The point is, Mr. Kleinberg, no one else was16 Q. present to evaluate your interaction with the applicants17 engineer, were they?18 Well, there was one staff member with me and two19 A. staff members of Mr. Anderson.20 So aside from your staff member from CME and21 Q. aside from the applicants engineering staff, there was22 no one else present to evaluate the nature of the23 interaction between you and the Anderson engineers, is24 that correct?25 20 That's correct.1 A. Now, your firm does commercial/residential real2 Q. estate development, doesn't it?3 I don't know that it does. I work in one4 A. department doing mostly structural engineering work.5 Aren't there people in your firm who are6 Q. structural engineers with respect to nonpublic works7 projects?8 Very few. On occasion the company does work on,9 A. for private clients, but it's just -- it's a very small10 percentage of the amount of work the company does.11 So most of your work is done through12 Q. municipalities?13 Municipalities, government agencies, sewage14 A. authority, water commissions, and counties primarily.15 How many objectors does your firm ever represent?16 Q. Sorry.17 A. How many objectors does your firm ever represent?18 Q. I don't know.19 A. Have you ever heard it representing objectors?20 Q. It's not in my, in my realm to hear that kind of21 A. a thing.22 Okay.23 Q. So you wouldn't know one way or the other?24 Yeah, I never had it discussed across the25 A.