December 3, 2025 Regular Meeting - WEHI Transcript

15 of 17 sheets Page 57 to 60 of 68 01/05/2026 02:58:16 PM 57 allover the Palisades that are built in situations like1 this.2 Well, those are older buildings, that's not3 Q. modern practice?4 We have a 30-foot high retaining wall on the5 A. Palisades that I designed.6 But did you design that?7 Q. Before COVID.8 A. But we're not formally putting ridge line9 Q. numbers --10 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Don't tell him what he11 normally does, ask him.12 MR. AFRAN: It's an engineering question.13 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: We're not normally doing14 anything. You can ask him not normally doing but --15 MR. AFRAN: It's a question. I said, we're16 are not normally building buildings on top of a ridge17 line, are we, in modern practice? It was a question.18 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay.19 MR. AFRAN: You may not like it.20 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: If he can answer.21 We're not normally doing this typically in the22 Q. ridge line, are we?23 Sorry. Of course we are.24 A. As a regular practice in New Jersey? So is this25 Q. 58 an exception?1 If it's doable. If somebody asked me to do it, I2 A. would design it.3 Look, engineering and enough money many things4 Q. are doable. I simply asked the question, we're no5 longer doing this as a regular building practice in New6 Jersey, are we?7 Nobody told me that.8 A. You're an engineer for many years, I am simply9 Q. asking the question based on a normal engineer in this10 state, can you answer?11 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: He answered.12 I did answer. Yes, we are building buildings on13 A. the ridge lines.14 I didn't ask whether we are. I asked normally is15 Q. it currently typical practice?16 I don't know normally or not normally.17 A. I don't know. Thank you.18 Q. MR. AFRAN: Mr. Kleinberg reacting that way,19 I'm simply asking an engineer what is typical practice20 today in modern engineering in our state. I think it's21 a perfectly reasonable question.22 MR. KLEIN: You now have anchors of land on23 ridge lines and then what percentage of that, of all the24 land and percentage of buildings are on ridges?25 59 MR. AFRAN: That may be your way of1 analyzing, I'm simply asking whether to his knowledge as2 an engineer building on ridge lines are typically3 constructed in modern practice in New Jersey.4 MR. KLEIN: And he answered.5 MR. AFRAN: I am not sure what the answer6 was. What he said is no one told me.7 MR. KLEIN: Yes, still do.8 THE WITNESS: Yes, we'll do it. If we

rn practice in New Jersey.4 MR. KLEIN: And he answered.5 MR. AFRAN: I am not sure what the answer6 was. What he said is no one told me.7 MR. KLEIN: Yes, still do.8 THE WITNESS: Yes, we'll do it. If we need9 to put the building there, we'll do it.10 Is it typical practice any longer in most11 Q. municipalities to allow buildings to be built on top of12 ridge lines, simple question?13 If you're saying that there are ordinances that14 A. say that you're not, I am not aware of them. I didn't15 read the West Orange one, if there's a restriction on16 building on ridge lines.17 So my question simply is, are you able to answer18 Q. whether building on top of ridge lines is typically19 constructed as a general matter in New Jersey or is this20 an exception to general practice in a modern context?21 I gave you my opinion. It is not an exception,22 A. that's my opinion. I don't know what else to say. I am23 out of answers.24 Well, there is a steep slope ordinance in --25 Q. 60 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: We're talking about1 ordinances, he said -- you asked specifically, you asked2 can they be built. He said, he said he is not aware of3 an ordinance. I think we're done with the ordinance.4 Thank you.5 You would agree under the Army Corps of Engineer6 Q. a higher safety factor of 2.0 is appropriate where a7 slope failure would have severe consequences to life and8 property?9 Right. They're talking about, they're talking10 A. about huge dam structures is what they're talking about11 in that reference manual.12 Well, let's take a look at that.13 Q. What they say in the ordinance, slopes of 1.5 is14 A. adequate.15 Just a moment. It says in Section 7-12, for16 Q. major concrete structures, dams, wells, basins, walls17 and retaining embankments, etc., the minimum requirement18 safety factor is 2.0?19 Right.20 A. That's 7-12. However, you would have to agree21 Q. that Section 8-13 speaks of applying a safety factor of22 2.0 in general circumstances for major rock slope23 consequence of failure is severe. And in Section 8-13A24 they don't talk about limiting that to dams and similar25