9 19 24 West Orange BOA ZB 24 06 PSEG Full size

Page 111 1 from 96 years ago. 2 MR. MALANGA: You said you need -- that is 3 PSE&G needs a more robust fence. Why is that? 4 THE WITNESS: That is because you yourself 5 have probably read in the news that utility substations 6 may or may not be targets. We need the most robust 7 fence we can get. That's why we have updated our 8 standards over the many years. And this I can speak to 9 due to my longevity as a PSE&G employee. In the '80s 10 and '90s it appears we were mostly using chain-link 11 with barbed wire. Then we were mostly using chained 12 link. We have evolved to using this decorative fence. 13 MR. MALANGA: And when did you evolve to 14 using the decorative fence? 15 THE WITNESS: In the 2010s. That is when 16 we started using this fence. And I have projects from 17 that era where we have used this decorative fence. 18 MR. MALANGA: Do you have any information 19 as to incidents of trespassing or vandalism or acts of 20 terrorism at this site? 21 THE WITNESS: I do not but I may not be 22 privy to that information. If you are able to walk 23 along the sidewalk with this fence you perhaps have 24 noticed that there are sections that perhaps don't look 25 the most secure.

Page 112 1 Also, some of the spokes or pickets on the 2 top appear to be twisted. That could have been through 3 human activity. It could also have been from a tree 4 limb falling on it. But I personally cannot say if 5 there have been human trespass. 6 MR. MALANGA: How long has the standard of 7 the National Electric Safety Code suggesting 7-foot 8 tall fences been in effect? 9 THE WITNESS: I am not an expert on this. 10 I know this has been PSE&G's basic standard. We 11 believe that stations in our territory need a more 12 robust 8-foot high standard. 13 MR. MALANGA: For how long has the 8-foot 14 tall, chain-link fence been in place at the site? 15 THE WITNESS: I believe that it was 16 installed either in 2007 or 2014. 17 May I ask, are you referring to the chain 18 link and barbed wire that's at the western entrance to 19 the station? 20 MR. MALANGA: I'm referring to any 21 chain-link fence that's 8-feet tall at the site. 22 THE WITNESS: I do not know exactly, but I 23 can tell you that our Resolutions do allow for 8-foot 24 high fencing. And the Resolutions are in the 25 application package.

Page 113 1 MR. MALANGA: You mean the Resolutions of 2 approval for this site? 3 THE WITNESS: Yes. 4 MR. MALANGA: All right. Does this 5 chain-link fence encircle the existing equipment at the 6 site? 7 THE WITNESS: To my knowledge it encircles 8 the 230kV yard. 9 MR. MALANGA: Would it not be possible to 10 use a similar approach and use a chain-link fence on 11 the interior of this site to encircle the proposed 12 equipment? 13 CHAIRMAN NEUER: I don't understand the 14 question. 15 MR. MALANGA: I'll try to rephrase that, 16 Mr. Chairman. Would it not be possible to encircle the 17 proposed equipment by a chain-link fence so the 18 fence -- the new chain-link fence would be on the 19 interior of the site, not on the perimeter of the site, 20 and maintain a lower fence on the perimeter? 21 THE WITNESS: I apologize that I cannot 22 answer as I am not a security expert. 23 MR. PORTER: And objection. That would 24 call for a specific design and engineering information, 25 to which this witness does not have personal knowledge

Page 114 1 or expertise. 2 MR. MALANGA: You indicate that the 3 proposed use and the construction necessary for the 4 proposed use would not alter the character of the 5 neighborhood; is that right? 6 THE WITNESS: It will not alter the 7 character of the neighborhood in terms of the 8 longstanding public utility use. We are endeavoring to 9 provide you with a fence that is a modern equivalent of 10 the existing fence and we are providing trees in 11 accordance with a landscape ordinance. 12 MR. MALANGA: Did you hear the testimony of 13 Mr. Futey? 14 THE WITNESS: I did. 15 MR. MALANGA: Did you hear him say it would 16 take at least 10 years before the plantings develop any 17 semblance of maturity? 18 THE WITNESS: I did. 19 MR. MALANGA: You did? 20 THE WITNESS: I did. 21 MR. MALANGA: So for a period of 10 years 22 will it alter the character of the site? 23 THE WITNESS: I believe the compelling 24 reason is electric reliability and we are doing our 25 best to mitigate this. So I do not believe that it

Page 115 1 would measurable alter the character of the 2 neighborhood. 3 MR. MALANGA: So cutting down trees and 4 other vegetation along the perimeter of the site, and 5 having it take ten years for it to regrow will not 6 alter the character of the site, is that what you -- 7 MS. PORTER: I object. 8 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Mr. Malanga, asked and 9 answered. Let's go on to something else, please. 10 MR. MALANGA: I have no other questions. 11 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you Ms. Merainer. 12 CHAIRMAN NEUER: You have 10 seconds left. 13 MR. MALANGA: I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman. I'm 14 going to have to yield that to someone else. 15 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Okay. Good clock 16 management, Kevin. 17 Mr. Fagan, any other hands going up? 18 MR. FAGAN: Yes, Mr. Chairperson. Micaela 19 Bennett welcome back to the meeting. Please state your 20 name and address for the record. 21 MS. BENNETT: Thank you, Mr. Fagan. My 22 name is Micaela Bennett and I live at 35 Old Indian 23 Road. 24 I just -- is it possible to share your 25 exhibits again? Is it possible to share the

Page 116 1 photographs? 2 THE WITNESS: I will endeavor to do so. 3 I'm just going to pull down my screen a little bit so I 4 can press the share button. 5 MR. FAGAN: Mr. Chairperson, would it be 6 possible for you to keep the clock being I do not have 7 it on screen? 8 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Yes, I have one going. 9 Thank you, Mr. Fagan. 10 MS. BENNETT: Thank you. 11 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Okay. Ms. Bennett, 12 there's the first picture. 13 MS. BENNETT: Yes, the first. Would you 14 mind just slowly sharing each of them? 15 THE WITNESS: Yes. I'll go back to the 16 beginning. 17 MS. BENNETT: Thank you. 18 THE WITNESS: Okay. This one I had meant 19 to show. This is perhaps a -- this might be A-13. I 20 had meant to show this first. This is our East 21 Rutherford substation. Is there a specific thing 22 you're looking for? 23 MS. BENNETT: Actually, if you leave that 24 one that's actually perfect. I don't know that that 25 was shared previously so I'm not sure if it's a part of

Page 117 1 the exhibits. So -- 2 THE WITNESS: I apologize. I had meant to 3 do that and inadvertently skipped this one. 4 MR. PORTER: Mr. Warner, we would request 5 that this be marked as Exhibit A-13. And Ms. Merainer, 6 was this photograph also taken by you? 7 THE WITNESS: Yes. 8 (Exhibit A-13 is received and marked.) 9 MR. PORTER: And which specific substation 10 does this represent? 11 THE WITNESS: East Rutherford. I included 12 this so you can see the pillars at the entranceway. 13 This also has trees lining the substation. 14 MS. BENNETT: Right. And that's why I 15 asked if you would just keep this one up. Because I 16 think this depicts what Mr. Malanga was referencing. 17 The positioning of fencing so as to preserve trees by 18 positioning the fencing inside of trees. 19 So I had originally asked for you to return 20 to the exhibits because I didn't recollect if any of 21 the exhibits had shown any landscaping or any trees, 22 and I was hoping that I was wrong. 23 So my question to you is this. With your 24 knowledge of each of these substations, do any of the 25 pictures that you've shared depict how you envision the

Page 118 1 landscaping of this site? The proposed, you know, the 2 application, the site of the application, or are they 3 all more urban? 4 THE WITNESS: These are generally more 5 urban or suburban. I had already explained that West 6 Orange switching station is rather unique due to its 7 size and existing -- 8 MS. BENNETT: I agree with you that it's 9 rather unique. It's also quite park-like. And you've 10 been there, yes? 11 MR. PORTER: Objection. 12 THE WITNESS: I have, inside and out. 13 MS. BENNETT: Yes. So I pass it every day, 14 multiple times a day and it's beautiful. And so is 15 there any way -- I know I need to ask a question, Mr. 16 Neuer. I'm sorry. But is there any way that this 17 application could consider the placement of the fence 18 so as to preserve the perimeter trees that are not 19 in -- not jeopardizing the substation but jeopardizing 20 your new fence? 21 Is there a way to put your security 22 fencing, which I completely understand why you need it 23 and you need it at industry standards, but is there a 24 way to position your fencing so as to be closer to the 25 equipment and further away from the trees so you can

Page 119 1 preserve trees? 2 THE WITNESS: I do not know if that is 3 possible. We cannot move the fence towards the 4 roadways because that is not our property. 5 MS. BENNETT: Understood. And I wouldn't 6 want you to move it closer to the roadway. I'm 7 wondering if you could move it deeper into your 8 property to preserve trees? 9 THE WITNESS: That would have to be 10 evaluated by PSE&G if we can even do that. Our concern 11 would be that there are sections of the property that 12 we could not protect. 13 MS. BENNETT: The park-like sections, 14 right, not the equipment sections? 15 THE WITNESS: That is still part of our 16 property. 17 MR. PORTER: Mr. Neuer, I object. This is 18 again calling for questions with respect to the design 19 of the site, which are engineering-specific questions. 20 She is testifying as the Planner. 21 MS. BENNETT: But the planner wouldn't -- 22 she just said you she doesn't know -- 23 CHAIRMAN NEUER: One second, Ms. Bennett. 24 MS. BENNETT: Oh, I'm sorry. I thought I 25 could respond.

Page 120 1 CHAIRMAN NEUER: That's okay. Let me 2 respectfully point out to you that your premise may be 3 flawed in that you believe that simply moving the fence 4 into the property is going to save trees and that would 5 require a great deal of study by the engineers as well 6 as the landscape architect, and all of that is beyond 7 the scope of this witness' testimony. So respectfully 8 please go on to something else and you're running a bit 9 out of time. 10 MS. BENNETT: I'm sorry. Okay. So I'm 11 sorry for taking so much time with this, but would you 12 go to the other images? Are there any trees in any of 13 the other images, and if so would you just share those 14 images? 15 THE WITNESS: Yes, I will. This is our 16 Fairmount substation. This was constructed just a few 17 years ago. We tried something different in this case. 18 What we did is we pulled our fence back into the 19 station so we could have a wide swath of landscaping. 20 We thought that -- this was an experiment. 21 Now, of course, this is not quite what you 22 have at West Orange. The landscape buffer is not as 23 wide. It is unfortunate that we have found that 24 neighbors have not necessarily respected the landscape 25 buffer and seem to think it is a trash receptacle.