12 12 24 PSEG West Orange BOA ZB 24 06 PSEG 35 Mt Pleasant Ave Full Size

Page 81 1 CHAIRMAN NEUER: You can go ahead. 2 Go ahead, Mr. Scott. 3 MR. SCOTT: I'm going to go ahead. 4 I agree with the witness's statement, 5 it is not the job of this appointed board to 6 undermine the elected council. 7 Thank you. 8 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Anything else, 9 Mr. Scott? 10 (No Response.) 11 CHAIRMAN NEUER: I take that as a no. 12 Mr. Linson, it's so good to see you 13 again. We've worked together in the past. 14 I respect your expertise. 15 Have you been to any of the prior 16 hearings on this application? 17 THE WITNESS: A little louder, if you 18 could. 19 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Have you been to any 20 of the prior hearings on this application? 21 THE WITNESS: Oh no. 22 For this application, no. 23 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Do you know why it is 24 that the development is such that those trees are 25 being removed?

Page 82 1 THE WITNESS: I haven't -- I haven't 2 any knowledge of what's gone on before with this 3 board and what they've heard. 4 I was asked to give testimony simply on 5 the -- on the quality of the existing trees and the 6 possibility that, you know, perhaps there hadn't been 7 thought in preserving them to the maximum possible 8 ability of the Applicant. 9 CHAIRMAN NEUER: But you didn't review 10 the transcripts or the videos of the prior testimony 11 as to why the development was such that those trees 12 are scheduled to be removed as a result of the 13 construction. 14 THE WITNESS: No, I have not seen a 15 video or was even told there was a video. 16 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Mr. Linson, you 17 mentioned the BPU regulations. 18 THE WITNESS: A little louder? 19 CHAIRMAN NEUER: The board of public 20 utilities, you mentioned that there -- 21 THE WITNESS: Yes. 22 CHAIRMAN NEUER: -- they have 23 guidelines and regulations. 24 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 25 They, you know, I know there's -- it's

Page 83 1 affected the -- our maintenance of street trees, and 2 I'm sure it's affected -- since 9/11 and some -- some 3 expansive utility outages, I know that they have got 4 more involved in providing distribution and oversight 5 and security of facilities like this. 6 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Let's talk about this 7 facility. Do you know of anything at this facility 8 that violates the BPU guidelines with respect to 9 maintenance of trees? 10 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I'm not -- I'm not 11 aware of anything. 12 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Okay. I know you have 13 a lot of expertise, sir. 14 Do you have an expertise in land use 15 law. 16 THE WITNESS: Do I have expertise -- 17 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Expertise. Expertise 18 in land use law. 19 THE WITNESS: Expertise? 20 Only as it -- as it -- my -- my 21 knowledge is minimal. I do review a lot of 22 applications for other municipalities in terms of 23 landscaping and, you know, coming up with solutions 24 to abate concern that the residents may have. 25 But I know there's different kinds of

Page 84 1 variances and I know we work a lot with steep slope 2 situations and interacting with soil conservation and 3 wetlands stuff, so -- Highlands Act. 4 So it's all related, but -- and I 5 actually was on a zoning board at one time for about 6 five years and -- 7 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Are you bragging or 8 complaining? 9 THE WITNESS: Yeah, yeah, so... 10 CHAIRMAN NEUER: So are there any 11 variances from the Tree Removal Ordinance required by 12 this application? 13 THE WITNESS: I'm not -- I'm not aware 14 of any actual variances necessary. There -- if -- 15 if, for example, there was a champion tree on site. 16 I mean, I haven't checked the records, but if there 17 were, if any of these trees were a contender for the 18 -- to be the state champion, then there would be a 19 specific need for a variance to have these trees 20 removed. 21 CHAIRMAN NEUER: But as we sit here 22 tonight, you're not aware of any variances from the 23 Tree Removal Ordinance that are required. 24 Is that correct? 25 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I think you have

Page 85 1 the facts in front of you and you -- having seen the 2 testimony of engineers and everything, only you can 3 determine whether the intent of the ordinance has 4 been meet and that the applicant has exhausted all 5 other alternatives in possibly saving -- saving these 6 large trees that have been existing on the site since 7 it was first developed. 8 CHAIRMAN NEUER: However, the township 9 forester has stated that the application complies in 10 all respects with the law. 11 Is that correct? 12 THE WITNESS: He's not losing sleep 13 over it. There are others in the community that are, 14 but -- 15 CHAIRMAN NEUER: I'm well aware of 16 that, but we're talking about somebody who has been 17 employed by the township to provide -- 18 THE WITNESS: He has -- you know, 19 Mr. Kipp has done his due diligence. 20 And, again, I -- I apologize for using 21 the term bean counter, but that's -- that's what it's 22 come down to. 23 CHAIRMAN NEUER: I understand the term 24 very well, thank you. 25 It's now time to move to the public;

Page 86 1 however, we're well past our 9:30 break time. 2 It's 9:46. We're going to take a 3 recess until 9:55. 4 We are now in recess. And members of 5 the public, please don't go away. It's your turn to 6 ask questions. We are now in recess until 9:55. 7 (Whereupon, a short recess is taken 8 from 9:46 p.m. to 9:55 p.m.) 9 CHAIRMAN NEUER: It appears to me that 10 the board has fully reassembled. 11 Recess is over. 12 Members of the public, this is the 13 opportunity for you to ask questions of the witness 14 based upon his testimony. 15 Somebody has got to turn off their -- 16 MS. CHANDLER: I think that's 17 Mr. Linson. 18 THE WITNESS: I'm here. 19 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Okay. 20 MS. CHANDLER: Some feedback. 21 CHAIRMAN NEUER: John, turn off your 22 microphone for a minute, please. 23 As I was saying, members of the public 24 -- there's noise in the background. Somebody -- 25 MS. CHANDLER: Yes, it's coming from

Page 87 1 you, John. 2 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Mr. Linson, there is 3 something in your background. 4 MR. BARBEE: He may have two different 5 devices listening, so one is picking up the echo. 6 MS. CHANDLER: Okay, he's muted now. 7 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Okay. 8 Thank you, Mr. Barbee. 9 In any event, members of the public, 10 this is your opportunity to ask questions of the 11 witness based upon the testimony he has presented 12 tonight. 13 This is not the time for making 14 statements or presenting your own evidence. That 15 comes at other portions of the meeting. 16 This portion is limited only to 17 questions based upon his testimony. 18 Kindly raise your hand so that you may 19 be recognized and admitted into the meeting. 20 MS. CHANDLER: Yes, we have Mosha 21 Rudin. 22 Please state your name and address for 23 the record. 24 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Mr. Rudin? 25 THE WITNESS: I'm here.

Page 88 1 MS. CHANDLER: State your name and 2 address, please. 3 CHAIRMAN NEUER: We're not getting a 4 response. Mosha Rudin. 5 MS. CHANDLER: You're good to go. 6 THE WITNESS: I'm here. 7 MS. CHANDLER: Okay. State your name 8 and address for the record. 9 THE WITNESS: Oh, again? John Linson. 10 CHAIRMAN NEUER: No. No, John. Not 11 you. 12 This is for Mr. Mosha Rudin. Do you 13 have any questions for the witness? 14 (No Response.) 15 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Can you hear me. 16 MS. RUDIN: Can you hear me? 17 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Yes. Who's this. 18 MS. RUDIN: Hi. This is Joyce Rudin. 19 I'm not sure why it's saying Mosha Rudin. It's Joyce 20 Rudin. 21 CHAIRMAN NEUER: That's what it says. 22 MS. RUDIN: Okay. Mr. Linson, nice to 23 see you again. 24 THE WITNESS: Yes, Joyce. 25 MS. RUDIN: How are you? And I want --

Page 89 1 THE WITNESS: I'm good. 2 MS. RUDIN: -- to let you know that the 3 tree is doing beautifully. The tree that you planted 4 on my lawn. 5 THE WITNESS: I drive past it 6 regularly. 7 MS. RUDIN: Good. 8 So I just wanted to ask you, do you 9 believe -- is it your impression that the applicant 10 is following, to the greatest of their ability, the 11 intent of the law, which is to save as many trees as 12 possible? 13 THE WITNESS: I -- to the best of my 14 knowledge. I have not seen any of the other 15 testimony or listened to a video or any of the 16 professional -- professionals from Public Service 17 that testified -- that are testifying that the 18 facility has to go where these specimen trees are. 19 So I -- I personally am not convinced 20 that they have attempted to save these trees to the 21 greatest extent possible, particularly when it's the 22 largest trees on the site that are being removed or 23 proposed for removal. I just -- it just doesn't add 24 up in my mind. 25 MS. RUDIN: Thank you.

Page 90 1 And I know that you've read our 2 prohibitions in the tree ordinance, so you're aware 3 that this tree -- the trees in this property are on a 4 slope. Is that correct? 5 THE WITNESS: What's the question 6 again, Joyce. 7 MS. RUDIN: That these trees -- that 8 this property is on a slope. Is that correct. 9 THE WITNESS: Yes, it is, yes. 10 MS. RUDIN: Okay. And do you -- in 11 your professional opinion, do you believe that 12 removing the trees would increase the amount of 13 stormwater runoff and/or negatively affect stormwater 14 runoff patterns? 15 THE WITNESS: Well, they're very 16 comfortable there and they are soaking up water in 17 their present location, which is at the bottom of the 18 hill. So they're in a strategic location to have 19 nature naturally treat wastewater runoff. 20 So it's just -- the water is going to 21 have to go somewhere and whether it's -- it's able to 22 be soaked into the ground or not, to the extent that 23 it is right now, I don't know. 24 In all my years of driving by there 25 I've never seen a ponding situation down there, so I