12 12 24 PSEG West Orange BOA ZB 24 06 PSEG 35 Mt Pleasant Ave Full Size

Page 71 1 into a house that's been neglected, the maintenance 2 has been neglected, you've got a -- you've got a 3 bunch of invasive trees growing up between the 4 garages and you want to take them down, they didn't 5 belong there to begin with. 6 So I think going down to that 7 two-and-a-half inch diameter tree removal, most of 8 the municipalities I know are at -- are at six 9 inches. 10 So I think -- I think it's a stretch 11 personally, but, you know, the governing body of West 12 Orange are tree preservationists, and they want a 13 protected two-and-a-half inch diameter tree, God 14 bless them, you know. 15 And somebody is going to have to 16 replace a tree in a park or a parking lot or 17 somewhere where it's going to do some good, if they 18 can't replace it in their own -- on their own 19 property. 20 MR. SCOTT: Thank you. 21 And you mentioned that the West Orange 22 zoning law, whereas in many other towns the authority 23 lies with the police or is within the police law, but 24 ours is within the land use law. 25 And in your professional opinion, is

Page 72 1 that a better place to have it? 2 THE WITNESS: I think -- I think it 3 works well in a community like this. It's -- and, 4 you know, there's so many different forms of 5 government, you know. 6 But basically I like the fact that if 7 the -- if your forester reviews an application and he 8 finds it's excessive and, you know, you know, like, I 9 would love to save that 58-inch diameter London 10 plane, if he should say, you know, I'm agreeing with 11 everything on this plan except you've got to save 12 this one tree and he denies it, the best part about 13 having it in land use is it goes before a board like 14 this where people like yourself question it and you 15 weigh the alternatives and you -- and you see, you 16 know, has the Applicant attempted to preserve this 17 tree? 18 Are there any alternatives to 19 preserving the tree? And if you've exhausted those 20 alternatives, then you're going to vote to approve 21 the application and let the Applicant remove the 22 trees. 23 But, you know, you -- you, as a member 24 of this board, you know, your voice is important. 25 And, you know, by leaving the entire responsibility

Page 73 1 up to your forester, you know, Walt Kipp is -- 2 whatever decision he makes, it's scrutinized. And he 3 could be blamed, you know, because not everybody in 4 West Orange is going to agree with his decisions and 5 there's always going to be someone who disapproves of 6 the granting of that ordinance for whatever reason. 7 And it's -- it's usually somebody, you 8 know, somebody from the other side of town that is 9 going to object about a tree that is removed on, you 10 know, over in South Orange end of town, you know. 11 You know, they drove past and they see a solid stump 12 and they say, oh, that was a healthy tree. 13 Well, not -- not all dead trees are 14 hollow in the -- you know, so basically, you know, 15 having expertise and having support of other people 16 -- in fact, and the way this ordinance is structured, 17 a lot of the heavy lifting is done for Walt Kipp by 18 requiring a licensed tree expert to certify the 19 tree's dead. The tree's not dead but it has this 20 defect. 21 You know, I mean, it's -- it's -- it's 22 a lot. It's a lot of hoops to jump through. But -- 23 but it's for the good. 24 And, you know, I mean I -- 25 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Mr. Linson, I think

Page 74 1 you've answered the question. 2 Thank you. 3 THE WITNESS: Okay, good. 4 I could talk forever. 5 (Simultaneous Speaking.) 6 MR. SCOTT: And would you agree, 7 Mr. Linson, that I believe it's your testimony here 8 that the purpose of the ordinance is to maintain the 9 tree canopy overall? Can you hear me? I want to 10 make sure you can hear me. 11 CHAIRMAN NEUER: He can hear you. 12 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 13 Replacing trees is something that we -- 14 we all can do to slow the process of climate change 15 and it just makes good sense, if you're removing a 16 tree, even if it is dead, to replace it with another 17 tree and not -- not just replace it if it's a healthy 18 tree. 19 But, you know, basically the quality of 20 life, we -- we appreciate our trees. 21 We -- you know, we don't always -- 22 always think about it, but, you know, the shade they 23 provide, the wind break they provide, the aesthetics, 24 the quality of life that -- that you enjoy in West 25 Orange, a lot of it has to do with the trees and the

Page 75 1 open space that you've preserved. 2 MR. SCOTT: Absolutely. 3 You've mentioned that the large 4 specimen trees, the ones that are 100 to maybe even 5 150 years old, and you've mentioned their diameter 6 and their height; would you say they are as important 7 as champion trees, which are on the State of New 8 Jersey's big tree list? 9 THE WITNESS: They may not be on as 10 large -- you know, in order to be on the big tree 11 list, you know, it's got to be the biggest tree of 12 that species. 13 Now, West Orange, I know they have at 14 least one tree because I found it in Llewellyn Park, 15 it's an American Hornbeam. 16 So, but they could be candidates, they 17 could be potential candidates to be the champion tree 18 of New Jersey. 19 There's certainly, you know, a 58-inch 20 diameter London plane is -- is enormous. 21 MR. SCOTT: Okay. 22 And would you please go over again how 23 long it takes for new trees to grow to the size of 24 the large specimen trees that you've talked about 25 tonight?

Page 76 1 THE WITNESS: Well, these -- these 2 largest trees are, you know, approximately a 3 hundred years old, maybe a little more. 4 But, you know, for a new tree to, you 5 know, they may never -- they may never grow to that 6 size. 7 But, you know, to -- to the extent 8 that, let's say you're planting a tree and it's 9 10-feet tall, how long will it take to be 50-feet 10 tall? Probably 25, 30 years. 11 How long will it take to be 70 or 12 80-feet tall? Well, maybe 75 years. 13 So it's just -- it's -- it's a 14 tradeoff. It's a tradeoff. 15 MR. SCOTT: Right. Right and -- 16 THE WITNESS: I mean it is -- 17 MR. SCOTT: I'm sorry. 18 Go ahead. 19 THE WITNESS: We're -- we're -- we're 20 fooling with Mother Nature. And she has a mind of 21 her own. 22 MR. SCOTT: Yes, absolutely. 23 You also testified, I don't know that 24 you've listened to other testimony from previous 25 hearings, but it was testified here by the presenters

Page 77 1 of PSE&G that many of the trees on the property are 2 not in fact facing the substation itself. 3 How important is that environmentally 4 in your professional opinion? 5 THE WITNESS: It's easiest to preserve 6 trees that are around the perimeter of the property 7 and like right at the perimeter of the property. 8 One of the -- the problems with these 9 -- these large trees is that they're in the interior; 10 in the interior, whereas the needs of the public 11 expands and their -- their need for greater 12 quantities of electricity expand, you know, and they 13 want to increase the size of the facility and its 14 productivity. 15 These -- these trees, I wish they were 16 at the perimeter of the property, but they're on the 17 interior of the property. 18 And -- but they do presently screen the 19 height of -- of the facility. 20 I mean, you can see them as you're on 21 the sidewalk on Prospect looking down in there, you 22 can see the size of these London plane trees and 23 these horse chestnut, you know, they're just -- 24 they're at the prime of their life, you know. 25 So when they're gone and there's new

Page 78 1 trees to replant them, well, you're going to be 2 looking at that facility for a long time. You know, 3 till they -- they even begin to screen the facility 4 from public view. 5 MR. SCOTT: Beyond the -- the visual of 6 the screening, that the trees may not be covering the 7 substation, itself, environmentally they provide a 8 very important service to this township, do they not? 9 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I -- I think, as I 10 said, those traffic lights, I'm sure everybody sat at 11 a traffic light on that intersection on Mount 12 Pleasant and Prospect, and there's four separate 13 lights. 14 And there's a lot of carbon monoxide 15 from the cars that are backed up at the lights. And, 16 you know, you only got the golf course and we've got 17 -- got, you know, we've got Eagle Rock reservation. 18 We've -- we're got a lot -- a lot of trees going for 19 us but -- but you can never can have too many trees. 20 MR. SCOTT: Okay. And I think that 21 that should be all of my questions for now. 22 Just that I agree it's not the job of 23 this appointed board to question the council, the 24 elected council, on whether it's the strongest, 25 safety, strictest law for replacing trees or not.

Page 79 1 That's the job of elected officials, 2 just as we are -- we can't question the statute. 3 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Do you have a 4 question? 5 MR. SCOTT: Thank you. 6 No, I'm making a statement, Mr. Neuer. 7 Thank you. 8 CHAIRMAN NEUER: But this is not the 9 time for making statements. 10 MR. SCOTT: No, the -- actually it is. 11 CHAIRMAN NEUER: This is not the time 12 -- 13 MR. SCOTT: The witness -- excuse me -- 14 I'm going to answer you now. 15 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Gee whiz. 16 MR. SCOTT: The witness mentioned that 17 the town council passed this law. 18 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Yes. And we're going 19 to -- 20 (Simultaneous Speaking.) 21 MR. SCOTT: And I agree -- 22 CHAIRMAN NEUER: -- enforce it. 23 That's our job. 24 MR. SCOTT: Yes. And -- and what I'm 25 saying -- excuse me.

Page 80 1 CHAIRMAN NEUER: We are -- 2 MR. SCOTT: Excuse me, sir. 3 CHAIRMAN NEUER: There is no excuse for 4 that. 5 You're out of order. 6 MR. SCOTT: And what I am saying -- 7 there's no excuse for your interrupting. 8 CHAIRMAN NEUER: You're out of order. 9 MR. SCOTT: You're out of order. 10 No, you're out of order. 11 CHAIRMAN NEUER: I don't interrupt, I 12 rule. 13 MR. SCOTT: You're interrupting, and 14 you don't rule me. 15 CHAIRMAN NEUER: You are out of order, 16 sir. 17 MR. SCOTT: We are out of order. 18 CHAIRMAN NEUER: You finished asking 19 your -- 20 MR. SCOTT: You are out of order, 21 Mr. Neuer. 22 CHAIRMAN NEUER: This is the time to 23 ask questions, Mr. Scott. 24 MR. SCOTT: We can sit here and 25 continue this forever.