July 30, 2024 Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

understory regrowth over time. The 7 area that is the medium green is areas that is not 8 clear, that's a natural woodland that you see today 9 without any deer fence protection and you'll 10 probably get some overbrowsing of the understory as 11 it is today, and then the light green is the area 12 where we have clearance so that we can do the 13 construction of the buildings and we've replanted 14 grass and landscaping associated with the project. 15 MR. MISARTI: Okay, thank you. That's 16 what I thought you said. So my question really is, 17 you know, you're showing the area of clearing of 18 being, like, right against the road, right against 19 the buildings, like, you know, if you have like a 20 four- story building 50-, 60-feet-high building, it 21 doesn't seem like -- it seems like you'd have to 22 clear further than, like, two or three feet from the 23 building. Like, are you showing here that the trees 24 are, like, going to be right against the building? 25 MR. ANDERSON: There's some clearing Page 149 1 beyond that, beyond that point, but it's -- it's -- 2 we will clear very close to the -- close to the 3 building at some points; in some places, it's 4 further away. 5 MR. MISARTI: Okay. So I have -- I 6 have just two more questions. One is about that 7 ridgeline you pointed out on the right side -- 8 MR. ANDERSON: Um-hum. 9 MR. MISARTI: -- the one line is a 10 deer fence, then that second line that goes up and 11 down, that's the line of the ridge; is that correct? 12 MR. ANDERSON: This line here 13 (indicating), yeah. 14 MR. MISARTI: Okay. And is it -- you 15 know, do you think it's possible to build that close 16 right up to the ridge? 17 MR. ANDERSON: I do. 18 MR. MISARTI: You do. Okay, good. 19 And I have one last question. The deer fence, like, 20 are you thinking the deer are going to be -- number 21 one, I guess where would they go or are they trapped 22 inside when you put the fence up? 23 MR. ANDERSON: I believe we would have 24 them leave the fenced-in area -- 25 MR. MISARTI: You would leave them.

39 (Pages 150 to 153) Page 150 1 MR. ANDERSON: -- and they would be in 2 the surrounding areas, so we have 33 acres, I 3 believe, of deer fence, we have just under 30 acres 4 of developed area, and we have the remainder, which 5 is approximately 60 acres left over on site, so 6 there's -- there's still a lot of space for them to 7 -- to go around. 8 MR. MISARTI: But they're not trapped 9 inside, they're -- 10 MR. ANDERSON: They're not trapped 11 inside. 12 MR. MISARTI: Okay, thank you. Thank 13 you. 14 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you, sir. 15 MR. ANDERSON: Thank you. 16 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Next person in line 17 please come up. Thank you. Please come up, state 18 and spell your last name for the record, please. 19 MR. ERSHOW: My name is Donald Ershow, 20 E-R-S-H-O-W. 21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 22 MR. ERSHOW: I'm a resident of 23 Roseland. I grew up in West Orange. I love this 24 town and I have several questions that are overall 25 related to noise, environmental and flooding. Page 151 1 I live off of Eagle Rock Avenue. You 2 don't -- unless I'm mistaken, you don't have a map 3 that is any broader than what you've provided, 4 correct? 5 MR. ANDERSON: That's correct. This 6 application this evening is for the on-site work not 7 associated with the signalized intersection that is 8 a part of the agreement. 9 MR. AFRAN: I'm sorry, it's hard to 10 hear. Could that be re-said? 11 MR. ANDERSON: Yes, it can. So this 12 is for the on-site application, not for the off-site 13 work, which is a signalized intersection on Eagle 14 Rock Avenue. 15 MR. ERSHOW: Okay. For perspective, 16 the community that I represent, because I'm the 17 president of my homeowners association, it is 18 located across Eagle Rock Avenue, a little bit west 19 of the entrance to the Pleasantdale Chateau, it's 20 called the Home Hill Association, and as the crow 21 flies, it's about a half a mile, maybe six-tenths of 22 a mile, from where the Pleasantdale Chateau entrance 23 is. 24 MR. ANDERSON: Right. 25 MR. ERSHOW: So from a blasting Page 152 1 perspective, noise matters -- would matter to us, 2 but that's not unique for us, but I'm mostly 3 concerned with the flooding issue because you made a 4 statement earlier that water isn't going to affect 5 anybody south. 6 MR. ANDERSON: Right. 7 MR. ERSHOW: In our community of the 8 people that I represent, about a dozen of the homes, 9 in my community,

atement earlier that water isn't going to affect 5 anybody south. 6 MR. ANDERSON: Right. 7 MR. ERSHOW: In our community of the 8 people that I represent, about a dozen of the homes, 9 in my community, their backyards are along the Canoe 10 Brook. There are -- and I will misstate it, is it 11 6,000 trees, actual trees? 12 MR. ANDERSON: Um-hum. 13 MR. ERSHOW: Irrespective of how we've 14 counted them -- 15 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Sir, I'm going to 16 ask you to ask a question. 17 MR. ERSHOW: -- that are there and 18 they flood, those homes flood. So you said they 19 don't flood. Now, that water isn't going to be 20 affected and my community floods. So I want you to 21 address what you said. 22 MR. ANDERSON: So what I said was that 23 we are not -- we are reducing the flow from this 24 project site. The -- we have trees on site that do 25 have some mitigating factor to discharge of Page 153 1 stormwater, but we have stormwater management basins 2 associated with it to take the place of that and to 3 go beyond the capacity of what the natural capacity 4 is, so we anticipate that the discharge rate is less 5 than what it is under existing conditions, so it 6 will not worsen the conditions of your memberships' 7 properties. 8 MR. ERSHOW: And now, all of that 9 water is then going to go where? 10 MR. ANDERSON: The water that is in 11 the Canoe Brook tributary area -- or Canoe Brook 12 drainage basin will be reduced and it goes to the 13 same place that it always goes, to the Canoe Brook. 14 MR. ERSHOW: So all the water's going 15 to go into the ground, into your basins, and go back 16 into the Canoe Brook. 17 MR. ANDERSON: It will -- yes, we're 18 not denying the Canoe Brook, the natural flow that 19 it has, we're controlling the rate of the 20 discharge -- 21 MR. ERSHOW: Okay. 22 MR. ANDERSON: -- to the Canoe Brook. 23 MR. ERSHOW: Now, during the 24 blasting -- okay, I'm not going to dispute your 25 testimony or whatever scientific factors --

40 (Pages 154 to 157) Page 154 1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Sir, ask a question, 2 please. 3 MR. ERSHOW: Okay. Now, with the 4 blasting, did I hear you correctly that you're going 5 to mitigate or during the construction 80 percent, 6 did I hear that correctly or what was the 7 filtration? Could you please repeat it so that I 8 have that correct? 9 MR. ANDERSON: That's not -- that does 10 not have to do with blasting, it has to do with 11 stormwater management, water quality and stormwater 12 management, where you take 80 percent of the 13 suspended solids out of the stormwater runoff. 14 MR. ERSHOW: And then you let them go. 15 MR. ANDERSON: And then it goes to the 16 detention basin for control of the rate of 17 discharge. 18 MR. ERSHOW: So the other 20 percent 19 of whatever goes into the Canoe Brook. 20 MR. ANDERSON: Well, it's 20 percent 21 that goes to the basin and some is filtered out in 22 the basin also, but the obligation of the statute is 23 to remove 80 percent of suspended solids. 24 MR. ERSHOW: So 20 percent of whatever 25 the construction disturbance -- Page 155 1 MR. ANDERSON: It's not construction, 2 it's just regular everyday what is on the roadways. 3 MR. ERSHOW: Of the disturbance. 4 MR. ANDERSON: Yeah. 5 MR. ERSHOW: Is that -- I'm a layman, 6 I don't -- 7 MR. ANDERSON: But these systems exist 8 after construction is over. 9 MR. ERSHOW: Okay. So if people are 10 swimming in the Canoe Brook, is there anything that 11 changes -- 12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Sir, I don't think 13 he -- 14 MR. ERSHOW: -- that I need to advise 15 them? 16 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Sir, he didn't 17 testify to swimming in Canoe Brook. I'm going to 18 ask you to come back -- 19 MR. ERSHOW: I just need - okay, I 20 just want to know whether I have to tell my 21 homeowners -- 22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: We don't know yet. 23 MR. ERSHOW: -- that anything's going 24 to change -- 25 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Yes. Page 156 1 MR. ERSHOW: -- because they currently 2 have rights -- 3 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Yes. 4 MR. ERSHOW: -- water rights to swim 5 in the Canoe Brook in their backyards -- 6 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Sir -- 7 MR. ERSHOW: And if, during this 8 process, anything's going to change. 9 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: We don't know yet. 10 You're going to have to come back for more 11 questions. 12 MR. ERSHOW: Okay. 13 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: But thank you very 14 much. 15 MR. ERSHOW: All right. 16 MS. MEYEROWITZ: Nancy Meyerowitz, 17

yet. 10 You're going to have to come back for more 11 questions. 12 MR. ERSHOW: Okay. 13 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: But thank you very 14 much. 15 MR. ERSHOW: All right. 16 MS. MEYEROWITZ: Nancy Meyerowitz, 17 M-E-Y-E-R-O-W-I-T-Z. We live on Howell Drive below 18 the cul-de-sac at the top. A couple of questions. 19 One, on construction, how long will the construction 20 project take? Will all the buildings be built at 21 once? And did I hear you correctly, you have no 22 idea how much blasting we will have to live there? 23 MR. ANDERSON: I'm sure there will be 24 some rock removal, some may be by blasting, I don't 25 know exactly how much. It depends on the methods Page 157 1 the contractor chooses to do and the consistency of 2 the rock that they find once they start getting into 3 it. The applicant has a lot of experience doing 4 work with, you know, removal of rock so, you know, 5 they're experienced in doing this. In terms of the 6 -- 7 MS. MEYEROWITZ: But the whole project 8 from beginning to end will be how long -- 9 MR. ANDERSON: I don't know -- 10 MS. MEYEROWITZ: -- and will the 11 buildings be done at once or one at a time? 12 MR. ANDERSON: I don't know if it's -- 13 I think it's going -- the buildings will be phased, 14 and so they'll build one building at a time or 15 maybe, you know, or start and you'll have a couple 16 going at the same time, but I don't know the exact 17 phasing plan at this point. 18 MS. MEYEROWITZ: The last question. 19 You said that there wasn't a need for the balloon 20 study on the other side of the development. With 21 only a hundred feet buffer by Howell Drive, do you 22 know for a fact that the houses on Howell Drive 23 won't be able to see the building up above? 24 MR. ANDERSON: You may see some, but 25 there's -- there'll be an exhibit in the

41 (Pages 158 to 161) Page 158 1 architectural testimony that will show some of the 2 viewports of what you can see from below to the east 3 up to the building on Building D. So that might be 4 more -- 5 MS. MEYEROWITZ: So there's no balloon 6 study planned for Howell Drive. No balloon study 7 planned for -- 8 MR. ANDERSON: No, no, there's -- no. 9 The balloon study was feasibility, location type of 10 study that was recommended during the court, you 11 know, proceedings or during the negotiations and it 12 passed that and the agreement was signed by all of 13 the parties. 14 MS. MEYEROWITZ: Thank you. 15 MR. ANDERSON: Thank you. 16 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Sir, 17 come up. State your name, please, and spell it for 18 the record. 19 MR. GODLEWSKI: Yes. Good evening. 20 MR. ANDERSON: Good evening. 21 MR. GODLEWSKI: My name is Frank 22 Gerard Godlewski, I live at 249 Runnymede Road in 23 Essex Fells. My house is on the State and National 24 Registry of Historic Sites. It's designed by Edward 25 Bowser, Jr. of East Orange. Page 159 1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Could you speak up a 2 little bit, sir? The people in the back can't hear 3 you. 4 MR. GODLEWSKI: All right. 5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 6 MR. GODLEWSKI: Can you hear me? All 7 right. I'm from Essex Fells and my home is by 8 Edward Bowser, Jr. of East Orange, it's on the State 9 and National Registry of Historic Sites in the 10 United States, and that's designated by the DEP and 11 I'm working with them on all of the different 12 aspects of the land marking to preserve the house 13 and leave it to public use. It's a lot of work, as 14 you can imagine. And I live alone, so... my 15 mother's deceased, we lived in that house -- 16 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you, sir. Can 17 you ask a question rather than -- 18 MR. GODLEWSKI: Yes, two questions. 19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 20 MR. GODLEWSKI: All right. I'm going 21 to, in public comments, describe all about the 22 flooding and the trees falling because of Pine Brook 23 that crosses my property. 24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: And the question is, 25 sir? The question is? Page 160 1 MR. GODLEWSKI: Do you have studies 2 showing about the water that impacts -- from Canoe 3 Brook, there's water that comes into Pine Brook. My 4 property's flooding and do you have studies -- 5 within the studies that you're performing about 6 Canoe Brook, are you aware of the DEP findings of 7 the

here's water that comes into Pine Brook. My 4 property's flooding and do you have studies -- 5 within the studies that you're performing about 6 Canoe Brook, are you aware of the DEP findings of 7 the water that goes to Pine Brook? 8 MR. ANDERSON: I'm not aware of the 9 DEP studies that go to Pine Brook. I'm really just 10 -- my testimony has been that I'm not increasing the 11 discharge, I'm actually reducing the discharge. I'm 12 -- 13 MR. GODLEWSKI: No, I was -- I heard 14 that. 15 MR. ANDERSON: Right. 16 MR. GODLEWSKI: Right. 17 MR. ANDERSON: So I'm reducing the 18 discharge, so if there's any contributory factor 19 from this property to that flow that you're 20 concerned about, it will be reduced. 21 MR. GODLEWSKI: Thank you. The second 22 question is about the light pollution, which is one 23 of the most important factors in our territory, 24 because you're going to see that all the way from 25 Parsippany at night, it's going to be all the Page 161 1 parking lots, all the parking lights. 2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: And the question is, 3 sir? 4 MR. GODLEWSKI: Do you have studies 5 about the light pollution that your project will be 6 causing and impacting us in Essex Fells all the way 7 down to Parsippany? 8 MR. ANDERSON: So we have a lighting 9 plan that I believe meets the standards for lighting 10 intensity and it's dark star compliant, so it cuts 11 down on light pollution, so -- with all LED 12 fixtures, so it is energy efficient and it should 13 not create the light pollution that you're concerned 14 with. 15 MR. GODLEWSKI: Okay. I completely 16 disagree, excuse me for saying that. 17 MR. ANDERSON: Okay. 18 MR. GODLEWSKI: Does -- does -- so you 19 do not have studies about the viewshed -- you 20 understand what a viewshed is. 21 MR. ANDERSON: Yeah. 22 MR. GODLEWSKI: All right. It affects 23 real estate values by 10 percent. 24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Question, sir? 25 MR. GODLEWSKI: So you do not have a

42 (Pages 162 to 165) Page 162 1 viewshed -- 2 MR. ANDERSON: I have the lighting 3 analysis that's required by this Board. 4 MR. GODLEWSKI: Thank you. 5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you, sir. 6 (Court Reporter asks for spelling of 7 speaker's last name.) 8 MR. FAGAN: Into the microphone. 9 MR. GODLEWSKI: G-E-R-A-R-D and then 10 G-O-D-L-E-W-S-K-I. 11 COURT REPORTER: Thank you. 12 MR. GODLEWSKI: Thank you. Thank you 13 very much. 14 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 15 Welcome. State your name and spell 16 your last name, please. 17 MR. FRESCHI: Dave Freschi, F as in 18 Frank, R, E, S as in Sam, C, H, I, Verona. 19 So the estimation for the cars -- for 20 residents' cars is around a thousand, right? And 21 then if you add on Ubers and delivery trucks, 22 Amazon, UPS and whatnot, you could, I think easily 23 add a few more -- a couple more hundred cars a day, 24 so a thousand, significantly over a thousand 25 vehicles on and off the site, so my question is: Page 163 1 With Kuzik and Howell being closed only to emergency 2 traffic, what would it take to overturn that -- 3 right? -- and to open up Howell and Kuzik to traffic 4 when, potentially, we encounter that this one road 5 and this -- the proposed solution, or the proposed 6 plan now, isn't just tenable in the future? What 7 would it take to overturn that? 8 MR. ANDERSON: So number one, we'll 9 hear some traffic testimony later in this 10 application from a traffic engineer who can go over 11 traffic volumes -- 12 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: Can't hear you, 13 please. 14 MR. ANDERSON: Sorry. We will hear 15 testimony from our traffic engineer later in this 16 application and they will go over the expected 17 traffic at various times of day and so forth. And I 18 will say just with regard to your comment about 19 opening up Howell, it is never envisioned to open up 20 Howell to anything but emergency vehicles. 21 MR. FRESCHI: No, my question was: 22 What would it take to open up Howell? 23 MR. ANDERSON: Well -- 24 MR. FRESCHI: So maybe it's a question 25 for the Board or the township attorney. The Page 164 1 question is: What would it take? Because if people 2 understood that that's a possibility, then that 3 would be -- 4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Sir, it's a good 5 question, that's not his testimony. So you may ask 6 him a question about his testimony or you may come 7 back and see if one of the other experts provides 8 testimony,

RMAN BAGOFF: Sir, it's a good 5 question, that's not his testimony. So you may ask 6 him a question about his testimony or you may come 7 back and see if one of the other experts provides 8 testimony, but the Board has heard you and we'll 9 discuss that in the future. 10 MR. FRESCHI: Okay. 11 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 12 MS. STOLOFF: Hi, my name is Jean 13 Stoloff, I live in Verona and -- 14 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Could you speak up a 15 little bit, please, ma'am? 16 MS. STOLOFF: My name is Jean Stoloff, 17 I live in Verona and -- 18 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: And spell your last 19 name, please? 20 MS. STOLOFF: S-T-O-L-O-F-F, like 21 "French fry." 22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 23 MS. STOLOFF: So my question is -- 24 it's a little bit of a process, so I understand that 25 Verona Township via Boswell Engineering sent a Page 165 1 report to West Orange Zoning with over ten points of 2 concern related to this proposal. 3 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, ma'am, Mr. 4 Anderson testified. As I said before, you may ask 5 questions about his testimony -- 6 MS. STOLOFF: Have you seen -- I 7 figured it's a good idea to give some reference. 8 Have you seen the Boswell Engineering 9 report that Verona submitted? 10 MR. ANDERSON: No, I have not. 11 MS. STOLOFF: What is the process -- 12 what is the -- what is your knowledge of the process 13 for you to receive that report? 14 MR. ANDERSON: I -- well, I didn't 15 know the report existed -- 16 MS. STOLOFF: May I ask the question 17 of the -- 18 MR. ANDERSON: If the township has 19 sent a report and they wanted to share it with the 20 applicant, they could have shared it with the 21 applicant. 22 MS. STOLOFF: May I ask a question of 23 the Planning Board? What is the process for Verona 24 -- 25 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: The process would be

43 (Pages 166 to 169) Page 166 1 that your engineer brings the report, presents the 2 report in his direct testimony and then he would be 3 available to have questions asked by the applicant, 4 the Board and the public. 5 MS. STOLOFF: So is that something 6 they should do tomorrow night? 7 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You can come 8 whenever and we'll have to see where that fits into 9 the grand scheme of things. 10 MS. STOLOFF: Okay. Thank you. I do 11 have a question specifically to that green space on 12 the bottom right quadrant. So if all of that is 13 green space and there is a fire amongst that area, 14 how is the fire department protecting the buildings? 15 MR. ANDERSON: You're talking about 16 here (indicating)? 17 MS. STOLOFF: A little to the left. 18 MR. ANDERSON: Here (indicating). 19 MS. STOLOFF: Yeah. If a fire starts 20 there and it's heading towards those buildings, it's 21 a way to the street before anyone can stop it. 22 MR. ANDERSON: So if it's a forest 23 fire out here in the woods, you know, you have 24 Bakley Terrace which will have a line cleared, you 25 have a path that comes where the sewer line is for Page 167 1 the condo association that can get fire people in 2 there. I don't know how they fight fires, it's not 3 my job, but that's how -- they could also access it 4 from our street here and do things that way -- 5 MS. STOLOFF: Okay. 6 MR. ANDERSON: -- but I'm not sure how 7 they would fight a forest fire. 8 MS. STOLOFF: All right. Thank you. 9 MR. ANDERSON: Thank you. 10 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 11 MS. SMALL: I don't think I need this. 12 MR. FAGAN: You do need it, ma'am. 13 Ma'am, you have to use the microphone because it has 14 to go out on the record. It's not -- 15 MS. SMALL: Because nobody will 16 understand what I'm saying. I've been listening and 17 most of it is muffled, it's not easy to 18 understand -- 19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: It goes out on Zoom. 20 MS. SMALL: -- but be patient with me 21 for one moment, please. 22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Go right ahead. 23 MS. SMALL: First of all -- 24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, ma'am, focus 25 for a second. Everybody stop talking, please. You Page 168 1 have to -- 2 MR. AFRAN: It's for the Zoom. 3 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You have to speak 4 into the mic because people on Zoom is listening. 5 There's people out there listening. 6 MS. SMALL: Oh. 7 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 8 MS. SMALL: Hi, everybody. 9 CHAIRMAN