July 31, 2024 Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

48 (Pages 186 to 189) Page 186 1 compare the one-bedroom COAH to the one-bedroom-plus 2 den across the hall that there's a big difference, 3 but you can see the one-bedroom and the one-bedroom 4 COAH are really quite similar size-wise, it's just 5 that there happen to be other larger one-bedrooms 6 available also. So there are small one-bedroom 7 market units also. 8 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Smaller, 9 correct. The numbers you gave were 800 to 900 10 square feet. I don't know what that block is that's 11 missing, if it's a one-bedroom or two-bedroom COAH. 12 MR. APPEL: Those are placeholders for 13 both storage room as well as mechanical fobs. 14 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Yeah, I mean, 15 so, not to belabor the point, however we got here, 16 you know, 738, on average, versus 850 on average, 17 right? 800 to 900. 1150 -- 18 MR. APPEL: But you're comparing 19 larger one-bedrooms and smaller one-bedrooms, so -- 20 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: No, what I'm 21 comparing are averages. If you're -- you're saying 22 the affordable average was 738, or the affordable 23 was 738; the average of the market-rate one-bedroom 24 is 800 to 900 -- I mean the range is 800 to 900, the 25 average would be 850, just looking at that -- at Page 187 1 that number -- at those two numbers. So you're 2 looking at 850 square feet versus 738, it's 112 3 square feet difference. That's almost a 20 percent 4 difference in size. That's substantial to me. Now, 5 it's not as big of a difference on the two-bedroom. 6 Two-bedroom is 1150 on average, market rate is 1200, 7 1300 square feet. Just say 1250. It's 150 -- it's 8 a hundred-square-foot difference, it's not a 9 meaningful difference, it's less than 10 percent. 10 But when you go to the three-bedroom, it is -- it is 11 now a large percentage. 1220 is the number you 12 gave, 1690 to 1850 is the range, which would put you 13 at about 1720. It's a 500-square-foot difference, 14 which is almost a -- it's about a 40 percent 15 difference. 16 MR. APPEL: Right, and the reason 17 being is that if you pan to the side, either to the 18 left -- 19 MR. FAGAN: Oh, I'm sorry. 20 MR. APPEL: -- or to the right -- 21 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Into the 22 microphone. 23 MR. APPEL: Oh, sorry. So all of the 24 market three-bedroom, the only place we're putting 25 them are these end caps, so they were just done to Page 188 1 stack these large units and we've -- we've

23 MR. APPEL: Oh, sorry. So all of the 24 market three-bedroom, the only place we're putting 25 them are these end caps, so they were just done to Page 188 1 stack these large units and we've -- we've actually 2 set back these units so that the units on the -- on 3 the lower floors are larger, so if you can look at a 4 -- I'm going to go to an upper floor, you can see 5 how -- you see here's the profile of the unit below. 6 They're set back. So that was to get an 7 architectural expression, not -- you know, so you 8 have some of these three-bedrooms that are larger, 9 but then they get smaller to accommodate, you know, 10 the stepping of the building. 11 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Well, even if 12 you use the smallest three-bedroom, you're looking 13 at 1690 square feet versus 1220 -- 14 MR. APPEL: Um-hum. 15 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: -- which is a 16 470-square-foot difference, which is still about 30 17 percent. 18 MR. APPEL: So we will -- we will look 19 at the -- at the COAH -- COAH unit sizes. 20 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Right, and you 21 know, that is just a philosophical approach to how 22 we treat renters who would fall into that affordable 23 category and making it as difficult as possible to 24 distinguish between an affordable unit and a 25 market-rate unit, and it's not just about the door, Page 189 1 because with a three-bedroom in particular, we would 2 expect there to be children, and what I would hate 3 to see is children going from one unit to another 4 and being able to distinguish that this is the 5 affordable unit, which, you know, could expose to 6 that type of bullying or kids can be cruel 7 sometimes. So that's the thinking, that's the 8 philosophy, and if we can address it beforehand, I 9 would appreciate it. 10 Those are my questions and my thoughts 11 and that does it for me, Mr. Chair. 12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you, Council 13 President. I'd like to go back to Building D. Mr. 14 Anderson couldn't tell us yesterday exactly how far 15 the back side of the building is from the ridgeline. 16 Can you tell us? 17 MR. APPEL: We already -- I thought I 18 already did. 19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Well, there's some 20 outpocketings from the back of Building D. I want 21 to know, from those outpocketings, if we put up the 22 picture again, you can look at that, where people 23 can walk out from the back side of the building. 24 That's what it looked like. 25

I want 21 to know, from those outpocketings, if we put up the 22 picture again, you can look at that, where people 23 can walk out from the back side of the building. 24 That's what it looked like. 25 MR. APPEL: So, coming from the top of