August 14, 2024 Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

50 (Pages 194 to 197)50 (Pages 194 to 197) Page 194 1 MR. APPEL: Oh, up over here 2 (indicating). 3 MS. PAUL: Well, not up over there. 4 Right there. 5 MR. APPEL: Okay. 6 MS. PAUL: A little closer -- a little 7 closer to the cul-de-sac. No, not there. Right 8 across the cul-de-sac, right there, from the woods. 9 How many trees are there blocking my 10 house? 11 MR. APPEL: I -- I -- I don't -- I 12 don't have an answer from -- from in between the 13 houses. I know these lots are all vacant, if I -- 14 if I recall. 15 MS. PAUL: There's no -- right, there 16 are no houses on that side of the street, but I'm 17 right across from the cul-de-sac. Is there any -- 18 is there any trees or anything blocking my view? 19 MR. APPEL: I -- I don't know without, 20 you know, that's a -- really a site question and I 21 don't -- I don't know where the trees are. 22 MS. PAUL: Okay. Okay. And the site 23 engineer will be back and I guess I'll be able to 24 ask them? And is my house the one that has the 25 hundred feet from the -- the hundred feet from the Page 196 1 MR. APPEL: But if -- 2 MS. PAUL: -- 100 feet. 3 MR. APPEL: But if your house is over 4 here, this is, you know, this is -- 5 MS. PAUL: Yeah, I'm not that far, I'm 6 the cul-de-sac. 7 MR. APPEL: So -- 8 MS. PAUL: But that's all right. 9 MR. APPEL: -- you're on the 10 cul-de-sac, I guess at the end over here 11 (indicating)? 12 MS. PAUL: No, right across. 13 MR. APPEL: Here (indicating)? 14 MS. PAUL: No. Right across that 15 access line. You see there's the cul-de-sac? On 16 the other side of the cul-de-sac, right there, is my 17 house, yeah. 18 MR. APPEL: That's where I was 19 pointing, over here (indicating). 20 MS. PAUL: Yeah. Okay. 21 MR. APPEL: Okay, so that -- so I 22 think that, to where your house is and your property 23 line, I've got to think it's probably closer to, you 24 know, maybe 300 feet or something like that, maybe 25 more than that, but I don't -- I don't know without Page 195 1 building? 2 MR. APPEL: So when you said a hundred 3 feet from the building, somebody -- I -- I tried to 4 correct this a couple of times. I think this was 5 something someone else gave testimony about distance 6 probably to a property line. 7 MS. PAUL: Okay. Same thing, my 8 property line. Is my property line the one that's a 9 hundred feet from the building? 10 MR. APPEL: I -- I think you're 11 considerably more than

to a property line. 7 MS. PAUL: Okay. Same thing, my 8 property line. Is my property line the one that's a 9 hundred feet from the building? 10 MR. APPEL: I -- I think you're 11 considerably more than that, I'm just not sure where 12 that -- 13 MS. PAUL: Because I'm assuming I'm 14 the closest house, so if I'm not a hundred feet, 15 which house would be? 16 MR. APPEL: I -- I'm not -- I'm not 17 sure what was a hundred feet. I apologize but -- 18 MS. PAUL: No, but it may not have 19 been you -- 20 MR. APPEL: It's not my -- 21 MS. PAUL: -- it may have been someone 22 else who testified -- 23 MR. APPEL: It's not my -- 24 MS. PAUL: -- the other night about a 25 house being -- Page 197 1 -- without pulling up a site plan -- 2 MS. PAUL: Okay. 3 MR. APPEL: -- and looking at that. 4 MS. PAUL: All right, and the site 5 engineer will come and he will be able to tell me 6 how many trees and what -- what will be blocking my 7 view; is that correct? 8 MR. APPEL: I'm sorry? 9 MS. PAUL: When the site engineer is 10 back, he will be able to tell me how many trees will 11 be between my house and that building; is that 12 correct? 13 MR. APPEL: I can't tell you what the 14 site engineer will testify to or not, but -- 15 MS. PAUL: Okay. That's fair. 16 MR. APPEL: -- he is more in tune with 17 trees and clearing and any of the site work than I 18 -- 19 MS. PAUL: All right. Thank you. I 20 have one more question. 21 MR. APPEL: Okay. 22 MS. PAUL: It seems to me you talked 23 about there being a dog boarding -- a kennel and a 24 grooming facility on the property. 25 MR. APPEL: I -- I don't -- I don't

51 (Pages 198 to 201)51 (Pages 198 to 201) Page 198 1 know specifically all the operations, you know, that 2 would be there but -- 3 MS. PAUL: Is this a commercial 4 property, is this zoned for commercial use? 5 MR. APPEL: I believe the building was 6 and this use was always contemplated, so it's -- 7 MS. PAUL: So I guess it must be. 8 Does the Planning Board know whether it's zoned 9 for -- 10 MS. McGOVERN: I think -- 11 MS. PAUL: -- commercial use? 12 MS. McGOVERN: -- it's definitely 13 zoned for the kennel because that's part of the 14 ordinance. I don't know whether outside -- people 15 outside of the complex and if it's something that -- 16 MS. PAUL: Even if it's someone in the 17 complex, I'm assuming they'll pay for the service, 18 no? 19 MS. McGOVERN: Yes, but it's part of 20 the ordinance. That's allowed under the ordinance. 21 They have -- I'm trying to find it. The ordinance 22 that was designed for this complex -- 23 MS. PAUL: I got it. 24 MS. McGOVERN: -- the fact -- 25 MS. PAUL: So -- Page 200 1 the ordinance provides, so -- 2 MS. PAUL: Wait, so they're having a 3 dog park indoors? 4 MS. McGOVERN: No, I think in addition 5 to an -- 6 MS. PAUL: Oh, okay. 7 MS. McGOVERN: -- outdoor -- 8 MS. PAUL: -- sorry. 9 MS. McGOVERN: -- dog park. 10 MS. PAUL: I'm sorry. Thank you. 11 MS. McGOVERN: Okay? 12 MS. PAUL: Yeah. I'm sorry. 13 MS. McGOVERN: So that's what the 14 ordinance provides. If they go past what the 15 ordinance provides, a decision on zoning will be 16 made by the Zoning Officer. That's not -- we're not 17 here to interpret it, they're just building the 18 building. 19 MS. PAUL: Yeah, no, I'm just trying 20 to understand, I'm sorry. Thank you. 21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 22 MR. WEISLEDER: Seth Weisleder 23 S-E-T-H, W-E-I-S-L-E-D-E-R. 24 My question is, on the ---en all the 25 buildings, actually, if we can pull up the slide of Page 199 1 MS. McGOVERN: -- that -- 2 MS. PAUL: So if it's open to people 3 outside the complex, is that a different ordinance 4 or is that a different rule or -- 5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: It's managed by the 6 complex. 7 MS. PAUL: I mean, I have no -- 8 MS. McGOVERN: I'm just going to read 9 the ordinance, and I'm not the one to make an 10 interpretation of it -- 11 MS. PAUL: So who would -- 12 MS. McGOVERN: -- I'm just reading it. 13 MS. PAUL: Who will know the answer to 14 this, though? 15 MS. McGOVERN: I guess we'll

one to make an 10 interpretation of it -- 11 MS. PAUL: So who would -- 12 MS. McGOVERN: -- I'm just reading it. 13 MS. PAUL: Who will know the answer to 14 this, though? 15 MS. McGOVERN: I guess we'll get more 16 specifics if we need to, but it says in the 17 ordinance "Pet-Friendly Amenity. As part of the 18 amenity package in addition to dog parks and other 19 playgrounds above, a development shall be permitted 20 to include an on-site pet service that shall be 21 permitted to offer walking services, pet-sitting 22 services, a pet spa or grooming service, overnight 23 boarding or related services, which shall be 24 permitted to operate indoors as part of a building 25 and/or as a standalone building." So that's what Page 201 1 all the buildings, if you can just depict for us how 2 many feet each -- each side or flat side of the 3 building, I think there were six of them, is from 4 different homes. 5 (Site plan is put up on the screen.) 6 MR. WEISLEDER: So let's just start 7 with Building A. How close is that? Which one's 8 Building A? I'm more familiar with D because we've 9 been focused on D all night. But if we look at 10 Building A, if you look at the -- just the flat 11 sides of it -- like, Building D had that red line; 12 if we could just look at the other buildings and say 13 "Okay, the left of Building A" -- right. So how far 14 is that side from the nearest home? 15 MR. APPEL: So what I had done was I 16 think we had taken a line from here over to -- from 17 this corner here over to, I think the corner of the 18 building that's next to -- that's just off the -- 19 off the line, so that in here, I think -- and these 20 are scaled-off site plans so that, you know, this is 21 an approximation, was 648 feet. 22 MR. WEISLEDER: Okay. Can we go to 23 the next building and just do the same thing, 24 please? Thank you. 25 MR. APPEL: And we took, from this

52 (Pages 202 to 205)52 (Pages 202 to 205) Page 202 1 corner coming back over to -- to this house over 2 here that I'm pointing to, which is, I guess, at the 3 -- and I apologize, I don't have the lots, blocks or 4 addresses -- 5 MR. WEISLEDER: That's okay. 6 MR. APPEL: -- but I was estimating 7 that to be around 509 feet. 8 MR. WEISLEDER: Okay. 9 MR. APPEL: From this corner of the 10 building, Building C, going back to the same house 11 over here (indicating), at that corner, about 480 12 feet, 482 feet. From this corner -- from that same 13 corner up going to the house, the closest house 14 across from Howell, so it's not these lots but 15 across from Howell, was 545 feet. 16 MR. WEISLEDER: Okay. And then -- 17 MR. APPEL: And all these are, you 18 know, clearly, you know, everything is within all of 19 the setback lines that were included in the 20 ordinance. 21 MR. WEISLEDER: Sure. And then 22 Building -- just, again, Building D is how far from 23 the nearest home? 24 MR. APPEL: You said Building D? 25 MR. WEISLEDER: Yeah. Page 204 1 year that was -- that this was created, this actual 2 image was created? Was it four years ago; three 3 years ago; a year ago? 4 MR. APPEL: Between a year -- maybe a 5 year or year and a half -- 6 MR. WEISLEDER: Okay. 7 MR. APPEL: -- ago. 8 MR. WEISLEDER: Given, you said, that 9 this is a diagram -- dia -- I can't even say the 10 word -- diagrammatic, trees and showing -- I mean, 11 it looks beautiful, it looks nice but we heard that 12 the forest is not good from previous testimony. Is 13 there other technologies to better depict to the 14 public the sight lines and what it would look like 15 using architectural technologies besides this 16 drawing? I'm not familiar with all the systems out 17 there, but I believe there are other technologies 18 that could be used to depict this more clearly and 19 better of what the homes on Howell would see or 20 other homes on Highland would see. 21 MR. APPEL: So our first mission was 22 to make sure that we were locating and designing in 23 accordance with the metrics in the ordinance. Our 24 second issue is we thought having these sectional 25 drawings, and we did two of these, help show the Page 203 1 MR. APPEL: So the closest was where 2 we drew this section, and that dimension, I have as 3 around -- so on the site plan, from the lower point 4 of the building here, the building steps

he Page 203 1 MR. APPEL: So the closest was where 2 we drew this section, and that dimension, I have as 3 around -- so on the site plan, from the lower point 4 of the building here, the building steps up in two 5 tiers, so the lower point was approximately two 6 hundred and -- I'm showing 264 feet and I just want 7 to make sure that's consistent. 8 MR. WEISLEDER: That's good, it's 9 fine. 10 MR. APPEL: It will be -- and I'm 11 showing on the other 230 feet, but that may have 12 been to the upper tier. 13 MR. WEISLEDER: So would you agree 14 with the testimony of your engineer that that was a 15 nice buffer all around to all the homes, from an 16 architectural point of view? 17 MR. APPEL: I -- I -- I think that the 18 idea to kind of cluster the structures toward center 19 of the property was quite successful, in my opinion. 20 MR. WEISLEDER: Okay. The -- the 21 picture, did you do the red lines for all the homes 22 or just that one home on Howell? 23 MR. APPEL: We did one section here 24 (indicating) and we did another section going down. 25 MR. WEISLEDER: And can I ask what Page 205 1 representative scale of things, and while they're 2 still diagrammatic, I think it shows how far these 3 distances, you know, are and the representative 4 scale of a house to a building, and I think that -- 5 and the grading as well, and I think that's very 6 important. 7 MR. WEISLEDER: I don't -- I agree and 8 I disagree because I think there's a reality to 9 things. Have you been to the site to see this and 10 see what this drawing looks like compared to what 11 you did and stand at that gentleman's house, which 12 is not mine, by the way, for the record, but I'm 13 just wondering, you know, because I think there's 14 better technologies to depict a reality of what it 15 is, and yes, this gives us a sense but not a 16 realistic sense. Would you agree with that? 17 MR. APPEL: I, you know, looking -- 18 looking at a diagram like this, for me, it tells a 19 picture and it tells a story, so I was confident 20 that the exhibit in here, that it's -- it's -- it's 21 telling a story. 22 MR. WEISLEDER: Okay. Fair enough. 23 Thank you. 24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 25 Please step up to the mic, state your

53 (Pages 206 to 209)53 (Pages 206 to 209) Page 206 1 name and spell your last name, please, for the 2 record. 3 MS. SMALL: Susan Small, 22 Fowler 4 Drive, West Orange, New Jersey. 5 (Inaudible) I have a question. The men 6 in suits sitting here, are they part of the 7 organization that you're -- that you're 8 representing? 9 MR. APPEL: Other consultants on the 10 team. 11 MS. SMALL: Other consultants. What 12 expertise is each of them in consulting? 13 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, ma'am, again, 14 I would like to focus -- I un -- 15 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 16 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 17 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 18 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I'm going to -- I'm 19 going to -- 20 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 22 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 23 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 24 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 25 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Function? Page 208 1 this evening, has hired an environmental expert. 2 The environmental expert will testify, has been at 3 each of the meetings, has a lot of information, has 4 walked the site, has understood what's going on on 5 the site, and will present to us, will present to us 6 -- 7 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I appreciate that. 9 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 10 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I'm wasting my 11 breath. 12 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) the people who 13 are volunteers on this Board have any -- are not 14 exasperated for the hours that they spend? 15 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Not at all. It's 16 part of the process. 17 MS. SMALL: Okay. 18 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: We are here for the 19 process. 20 MS. SMALL: And they're giving it out 21 of love, their time. 22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Yes. Absolutely. 23 MS. SMALL: Right. 24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: But -- 25 MS. SMALL: And there are -- Page 207 1 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You're looking for 3 that word. Okay, good. So -- 4 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, there's a lot 6 of substance here, you're just not following -- 7 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, there are -- 9 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 10 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 11 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 12 MR. APPEL: I don't know what your 13 question is. 14 MS. SMALL: Is there -- 15 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay, listen. 16 MS. SMALL: -- an environmental person 17 who did some evaluation on the plans or the 18 environment? 19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ms. Small, can you 20 listen to me for a second? I'm going to ask you a 21 question. I need you to

vironmental person 17 who did some evaluation on the plans or the 18 environment? 19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ms. Small, can you 20 listen to me for a second? I'm going to ask you a 21 question. I need you to focus. 22 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 23 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You're absolutely 24 right, but I have to answer yours and I'm trying. 25 The Planning Board, as stated earlier Page 209 1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 2 MS. SMALL: -- there are other people 3 getting paid -- 4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ms. Small -- 5 MS. SMALL: -- for their time. Am I 6 right or wrong? 7 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ms. Small, the only 8 thing I got paid was a Starbucks and I bought that 9 myself. 10 MS. SMALL: Comment time. 11 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Comment time. 12 MS. SMALL: Later that -- 13 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Yes. 14 MS. SMALL: -- it's going to be 15 comment time. 16 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ms. Small, the 17 process is, the applicant will be able to present 18 all of their people. You could ask questions of 19 their experts. When the application is completed by 20 the applicant, all the information is heard. Before 21 the Board deliberates, we will then hear comments 22 from the public and you can speak to the 23 application. 24 MS. SMALL: Okay. Let me interrupt 25 you for a moment. My time and the time of all these

54 (Pages 210 to 213)54 (Pages 210 to 213) Page 210 1 people who pay for the running of this town is just 2 as valuable as anybody who's getting paid for their 3 time. We're not getting paid, and if you don't get 4 paid -- if you have no price in our system, you have 5 no worth. 6 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You have a lot of 7 worth. 8 MS. SMALL: That's what you get for 9 nothing, it's worthless, it's priceless, and if it's 10 priceless, it's not paid. 11 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 12 MS. SMALL: So I want to know whether 13 you will give me a discount off my taxes, or the Tax 14 Office will, for the time -- 15 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ms. Small -- 16 MS. SMALL: -- valuable time, because 17 my time is running out -- 18 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ms. Small -- 19 MS. SMALL: -- I'm getting old -- 20 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ms. Small -- 21 MS. SMALL: -- and time is everything. 22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ms. Small -- 23 MS. SMALL: Time is money. 24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ms. Small, you're 25 taking the time from the people who are sitting next Page 212 1 I appreciate that. The gentleman -- 2 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 3 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Yes, you do. The 4 gentleman -- 5 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 6 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ms. Small -- 7 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ms. Small -- 9 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 10 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 11 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 13 MS. SMALL: You're helping them more 14 than you're helping the people you're serving for 15 free as a volunteer. I'm questioning that. 16 Meanwhile -- meanwhile, you said that I could come 17 up and submit this. 18 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ms. Small, there's a 19 gentleman behind you. 20 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ms. Small, the 22 gentleman behind you has got questions. Why don't 23 you let him speak, please. 24 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 25 MR. LATERZA: Patrick Laterza, Page 211 1 to you who also want to hear the information -- 2 MS. SMALL: Is there anybody here who 3 feels that they don't want to hear -- that they want 4 something I'm asking for now? 5 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: Yes. 6 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 7 MS. SMALL: Why don't you (inaudible 8 word) then? 9 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. There's a 10 gentleman behind you who's got a couple of 11 questions. Thank you, have a wond -- 12 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) these four 13 gentlemen, my feeling, as I'm sitting here, seem to 14 be -- 15 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 16 MS. SMALL: --

t a couple of 11 questions. Thank you, have a wond -- 12 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) these four 13 gentlemen, my feeling, as I'm sitting here, seem to 14 be -- 15 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 16 MS. SMALL: -- impatient. 17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: They're not -- 18 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 20 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 22 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 23 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you very -- 24 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible) 25 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you very much, Page 213 1 L-A-T-E-R-Z-A. Can Ms. Small -- 2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: No, put it down. 3 MR. LATERZA: Okay. I'm sorry, I'll 4 hold on -- I'll give it back. Not right now, all 5 right? 6 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Put it down. 7 MS. SMALL: (Inaudible). 8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 9 MR. LATERZA: I'm sorry, I forgot my 10 question. 11 I have two quick questions and 12 hopefully I'm the last. First, going back to, you 13 know, not to belabor the very important point of 14 affordable housing, by my count, there's 97 units, 15 is that correct, or I'm incorrect on that? 16 MR. APPEL: You're talking about -- 17 you're talking about -- 18 MR. LATERZA: On the plan -- the 19 affordable housing, yes. 20 MR. APPEL: A hundred units. 21 MR. LATERZA: There are a hundred, 22 okay, because the map keeps on glitching on me. 23 The second question has to do with 24 access for construction, the location attached to 25 Howell Drive that's supposed to be used for