June 23, 2025 Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

07/19/2025 07:03:47 AM Page 45 to 48 of 52 12 of 21 sheets 45 MR. PLOCKER: And the town zoned it for this1 density.2 MR. AFRAN: I'm sorry. What?3 MR. PLOCKER: The town zoned this property4 for this density that's proposed.5 MR. AFRAN: I am simply asking the witness6 who went out of his way repeatedly to tell us there's no7 sprawl here, whether in lieu of all these factors he8 stands by the proposition that this project does not9 contribute to urban sprawl.10 I still standby that statement.11 A. You mentioned that the traffic engineer spoke of12 Q. the traffic, but the question of sprawl and blithe is13 within the planning profession, isn't that true?14 Yes.15 A. You can't really defer to what the traffic16 Q. engineer says on this question, you need to have your17 own substantiated viewpoint, isn't that correct?18 Again, I rely on the predicate of witnesses19 A. before me. Traffic generation is certainly considered,20 land disturbance is a consideration as well. All of21 that which is proposed here is within the confines of22 what the ordinance contemplates.23 Well, why did you bring up sprawl if the24 Q. ordinance contemplates this project, why did you bother25 46 to tell us there's no sprawl coming from this. It1 wouldn't matter, would it, as Mr. Plocker says. The2 ordinance says you can have this density, so why did you3 then tell us this doesn't create sprawl if the ordinance4 says we could have this. Why did you go to the trouble5 of trying to persuade the board that there is no sprawl?6 Because the purpose -- in my mind the purposes of7 A. the zoning ordinance are laudable as a deterrent to8 sprawl compact development and the efforts of the9 applicant are laudable for following the laudable goals10 of the ordinance.11 So basically you're saying because the ordinance12 Q. allows this there is no sprawl?13 I'm saying the purpose of the ordinance is14 A. laudable, again, as a deterrent to sprawl.15 Well, the only -- so you're saying this project16 Q. deters sprawl and that's laudable?17 Yes. We have a problem in New Jersey, we have a18 A. demand for housing for affordable housing that is19 imposed, that is mandated on communities. Communities20 have to pick their spots and this, again, this has been21 a well vetted process that landed us to here and an22 ordinance that went through all of the procedural23 requirements that it needed to and then an

o pick their spots and this, again, this has been21 a well vetted process that landed us to here and an22 ordinance that went through all of the procedural23 requirements that it needed to and then an applicant24 that has essentially followed that to a T.25 47 Well, you know perfectly well there was a1 Q. settlement agreement, you know, the affordable housing2 case, there's going to be an almost automatic approval3 of the zoning change?4 MR. PLOCKER: Objection.5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I got it.6 Whatever the court does is above the pay7 rate of this Planning Board, so.8 MR. AFRAN: Then the witness shouldn't be9 speaking to the fact -- excuse me, every time I ask a10 question the witness goes back to the laudable11 objectives of the very well conceived plan that followed12 all procedural basis in creating the zoning ordinance.13 So he is constantly telling you, all of this is done in14 a perfectly normal, legitimate way and then Mr. Plocker15 arises and says, don't you dare cross examine him.16 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You can cross examine him.17 I know the board is picking up on things.18 MR. AFRAN: We can move on.19 MR. PLOCKER: Can I just clarify my20 statement. My objection is not that Mr. Afran can't21 cross examine Mr. McDonough, but he said that this board22 is basically bound by the automatic approval and I don't23 agree with that statement at all. So I think it was24 misstating what this board can or can't do in the25 48 duties, jurisdiction and obligations of the board. That1 was my objection.2 MR. AFRAN: Well, Mr. Plocker and I are in3 full agreement, the board does not have an automatic4 approval obligation. I am glad we agree on that.5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I am going to agree with6 that too.7 MR. AFRAN: I'm glad. This is the point of8 doing this. We got to a point of agreement, it's good.9 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Let's get beyond sprawl.10 MR. AFRAN: I think we can avoid almanacs of11 sprawl.12 We're coming to the end.13 Can I have just one moment, please.14 (Whereupon, a short recess is taken.)15 MR. AFRAN: Mr. Chairman, that covers our16 cross examination. I thank Mr. McDonough. I hope he is17 able to get to his -- there may be more questions from18 the public, I don't know. But I hope he can get to his19 next meeting.20 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: The board and public21 questioned from the previous discussion.22 We want to thank Mr. McDonough, unless Mr.23 Plocker has any

n't know. But I hope he can get to his19 next meeting.20 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: The board and public21 questioned from the previous discussion.22 We want to thank Mr. McDonough, unless Mr.23 Plocker has any questions.24 MR. PLOCKER: No. Thank you.25