June 23, 2025 Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

3 of 21 sheets Page 9 to 12 of 52 07/19/2025 07:03:47 AM 9 Yes, agreed.1 A. To provide a desirable and visual environment to2 Q. the various locations?3 Agreed again, yes.4 A. J in the statute, To promote the conservation of5 Q. historic sites and districts, open space, energy6 resources and valuable natural resources in the State7 and to prevent urban sprawl and degradation of the8 environment through improper use of land?9 Yes, another purpose.10 A. And there are others in the MLUL?11 Q. That's correct.12 A. And I am citing from Section 40:55D-2?13 Q. Yes.14 A. So it's not just affordable housing that needs to15 Q. be satisfied as a matter of good planning, but rather16 these other elements must also be satisfied?17 Correct. There are multiple purposes of zoning,18 A. as I understand the law it's the applicants burden to19 show and demonstrate that it meets one or more. One or20 more.21 Now, I understand that you did not consider the22 Q. impact of stormwater on the neighboring municipalities,23 such as Essex Fells?24 Well, again, my testimony relies upon the25 A. 10 predicate of expert witnesses that have gone before me.1 So while I may not be an engineer, I am relying on the2 engineering conclusions that the site will not cause a3 negative impact from a stormwater standpoint on4 neighboring properties.5 But you would agree though that impact on6 Q. neighboring properties is a factor the board must7 consider under the MLUL?8 Yes, zoning and planning does not end at the9 A. property lines, I agree. Municipal lines, I agree.10 Municipal lines?11 Q. Yes.12 A. Thank you.13 Q. Now, you noted that the Master Plan of the town14 speaks to affordable housing?15 Yes, the affordable housing, the housing element16 A. and fair share plan is one element of the Master Plan.17 And in fact nearly every town has one at this18 Q. stage?19 Correct. Agreed.20 A. And -- but the Master Plan also has other21 Q. objectives and goals such as preservation of open space,22 protection of the environment and other factors like23 that?24 Indeed. Yes.25 A. 11 So, again, the fact that we satisfy the1 Q. affordable housing aspect to the Master Plan doesn't2 mean the rest of the Master Plan is necessarily3 satisfied?4 I agree with you.5 A. The MLUL, particularly Section 55:D-2, is6 Q. intended as a guide for incorporation into the zoning7 ordinance, isn't that right?8 That's correct.

lan is necessarily3 satisfied?4 I agree with you.5 A. The MLUL, particularly Section 55:D-2, is6 Q. intended as a guide for incorporation into the zoning7 ordinance, isn't that right?8 That's correct. That's the pre-ample to the MLUL9 A. and the reason why this town and other towns get to zone10 in the first place.11 So the zoning ordinances have to adopt those12 Q. standards in some form in order to comply with the MLUL?13 Yes.14 A. MR. PLOCKER: I am going to object to this15 line of questioning to the extent the zoning ordinance16 speaks for itself and to the extent these questions are17 designed to attack the zoning ordinance. This is the18 wrong forum or that.19 MR. AFRAN: Well, if the zoning ordinance20 suspends virtually every environmental rule, all21 environmental rules as the applicant suggests, then it's22 actually not providing standards under Section J, is it?23 THE WITNESS: All I can say is that this24 zoning ordinance was found to be substantially25 12 consistent with the Master Plan when it was adopted back1 in, I believe, 2021.2 By the council. The council made that finding3 Q. and the Planning Board --4 But the Planning Board was in between making a5 A. finding that the zoning ordinance would not impair the6 intent and purpose of the Master Plan.7 MR. PLOCKER: Again, I'm going to object. I8 believe this is the wrong forum to discuss the merits of9 the ordinance. The ordinance was adopted during COVID,10 I watched it, there was no legal lawsuit, there was no11 prerogative writ suit challenging the ordinance. To the12 extent this line of questioning is seeking to challenge13 the zoning ordinance the Planning Board does not have14 jurisdiction over that area.15 MR. AFRAN: Actually, I'm not here to16 challenge the zoning ordinance, that would not be the17 correct forum, I would agree with Mr. Plocker on that18 point. My purpose was different.19 Now, you cited the Pizzo Mantin case several20 Q. times in your testimony. Now -- and you said Pizzo21 Mantin says that we look for sound planning in the22 ordinance, that was what you said, I think, in your23 testimony?24 Yes, the essence of good planning is routed the25 A.