June 23, 2025 Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

07/19/2025 07:03:47 AM Page 13 to 16 of 52 4 of 21 sheets 13 zoning ordinance.1 Pizzo Mantin dealt with a case in which the2 Q. Superior Court found that the zoning ordinance actually3 specifically incorporated the different standards from4 the MLUL, such as avoiding steep slopes, avoiding5 wetlands, protecting the environment, isn't that6 correct?7 I don't recall that specific language in there.8 A. Again, I know there's always a nexus between a ordinance9 and the Master Plan and the purposes of zoning and the10 MLUL.11 Okay.12 Q. I am not going to press you if you don't recall13 that specific language, but if an ordinance actually14 abandons all environmental protection, as the applicant15 suggests this one does, then the board, even under Pizzo16 Mantin, has no choice but to look for the general17 welfare principles under the MLUL with respect to the18 environment --19 MR. PLOCKER: I'm going to object to the20 characterization saying an ordinance is abandoning all21 environmental protection.22 MR. AFRAN: Well, then Mr. Plocker will like23 to identify where it does offer environmental protection24 if he's going to make --25 14 MR. PLOCKER: I don't have to do that.1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: We're going to move on.2 The ordinance is the ordinance, it's here set in stone.3 You may argue this in another venue, but for right now4 it's the rules we have to work with. So I would5 recommend you move on, please.6 Well, if the ordinance requires environmental7 Q. review of a site plan application that means the board8 does have to in fact consider and explore the9 environmental impacts of the plan, doesn't it?10 Well, there is a couple forces that play in here.11 A. The affordable housing regulations have specific12 language that talks about eliminating barriers to the13 provision of affordable housing. That said, I think we14 can certainly agree that doesn't mean that an ordinance15 or a site plan can be violative of environmental16 protection regulations. I like this application for the17 reasons that I said before, preserving 90 of the 12018 acres is, I think, is environmentally responsive and19 context sensitive buffers of 900 feet on one side is20 something -- I do this every night. I never see 90021 buffers on one side and 700 feet on another side. This22 is a very considerate plan with respect to environmental23 preservation, in my view.24 And are you trained in

is every night. I never see 90021 buffers on one side and 700 feet on another side. This22 is a very considerate plan with respect to environmental23 preservation, in my view.24 And are you trained in environmental protection?25 Q. 15 It's part of the multiplicity of things planners1 A. need to consider is environmental planning.2 Are you trained in environmental protection?3 Q. I am --4 A. That was my question.5 Q. I am not an environmental scientist per se who6 A. delineates wetlands and the like.7 My question was simply, are your trained in8 Q. environmental protection?9 MR. PLOCKER: What's environmental10 protection? Is there a licence in environmental11 protection? I don't understand.12 MR. AFRAN: I don't think I need to have a13 license statute to understand my question. It's a14 simple question. The planner testified several times15 tonight as well as earlier that he thinks this is an16 environmentally sound plan.17 MR. PLOCKER: And he also said he relied on18 --19 MR. AFRAN: I simply asking, what are his20 credentials to make that judgement.21 MR. PLOCKER: He also testified he relied on22 other professionals who gave testimony in this case,23 including the boards own professional.24 MR. AFRAN: Actually what the gentleman said25 16 was, in my opinion, and gestured to himself, this plan1 is environmentally sound.2 MR. PLOCKER: Would you like to rephrase3 your testimony, Mr. McDonough?4 MR. AFRAN: I appreciate if we wouldn't lead5 a witness into changing his testimony. That's not a6 proper question.7 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. McDonough, have you8 had courses in environmental protection in any of your9 degrees?10 THE WITNESS: Yes, my undergraduate is11 actually in environmental planning and design.12 Well, environmental planning, what have you13 Q. studied by way of ecological science?14 We have ecology classes in school. We are also15 A. required and mandated to have continuing education as16 part of our licensure. Biannual licensure.17 Let me be direct. Do you have a degree in18 Q. ecology? In ecological science.19 I do not have a degree in ecology.20 A. Okay.21 Q. Do you have a degree in environmental science?22 No.23 A. Do you have a degree in wetlands science?24 Q. No.25 A.