August 25, 2025, Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 71 sort of started to ask you questions regarding your affiliation with the NJDEP, whether or not you have one. As well, I guess I want to know who utilizes, besides me, this model? What other faculties throughout the state, who relies on this intrinsically to come up with data and to make determinations? Can you give us some of your references, besides, you know, not the DEP. THE WITNESS: Yeah. THE PUBLIC: Who else uses this. Because I think that they compliment one another when I use them, but. THE WITNESS: We really don't know exactly who's using it. We get like counts of thousands of users per month that are using this. We get an idea throughout the state that they're being used. A lot of the information about what people find useful is anecdotal, but I am getting 3,000, 4,000 hits for a private website, not private -- well, it's for a state website, state university website showing mapping, it way exceeds other mapping programs out there. So a lot of people are using it. Primarily the conservation community and the planning board community that I know of. Again, by people telling me that they appreciate it. THE PUBLIC: You integrated FEMA data into

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 72 your system, correct? THE WITNESS: We have hundreds of layers, some of them come federal, some of them state, some of them are models that we billed. But we do have federal data. THE PUBLIC: And FEMA is one of them? THE WITNESS: Yes. THE PUBLIC: When you go to the general DEP site and you look for the FEMA data, I am generally redirected to the FEMA mapping system. It's not integrated, have you found the same to be true? THE WITNESS: Well, the DEP has their own FEMA adjusted model, that I mentioned. THE PUBLIC: But it's not all in one? THE WITNESS: That's a good question. Because I just use the FEMA plus 3 model from DEP, you know, I haven't looked on the DEP website whether they have both of them. THE PUBLIC: I don't want to testify but -- CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Good. Don't. THE PUBLIC: But your site integrates them both? THE WITNESS: Correct. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Anyone else from the public have questions

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 73 for Professor Hasse? MR. AFRAN: Before you go. One of my clients asked me if Professor Hasse, if you could zoom in for a moment on the Howell Drive area. I think that's in the center at the bottom of the forest. The red. Top right. Further to the top right. Howell Drive. That's it. Can you hold that just one moment. THE WITNESS: Sure. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Why don't we let the public ask their questions, then you guys can come back up. MR. AFRAN: Below the cul-de-sac there's a small rectangle. Red. Right there. That's part of the steep slope, right? THE WITNESS: This has a lot of different layers turned on here. So what we have is you have property and parcels and then, those are in white. And then you have, I believe, the landscape outlines that are shown in the landscape patches because there's different types of forest that are identified, so it's not all the same. These are identifying different stands of forest species that are just an outline there because I wanted to be able to see the aerial image in between. So that's what's causing a little bit of this confusion. In that, that it's not the parcel line that

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 74 you're seeing, it's a forest mapping edge that's creating this is one here. MR. AFRAN: No, I understand that. Right under the cul-de-sac there's a red shape. Right there. THE WITNESS: That red is indicating those pixels are 15 percent or greater. It's a little patch of 15 percent. MR. AFRAN: That's what I wanted to clarify. THE WITNESS: Yes. MR. AFRAN: Thank you very much. MR. PLOCKER: Could I ask a question while we're there. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. Leave that there. MR. PLOCKER: Can you zoom in again, please. Back out a little bit so we see some the homes on Howell Drive. A little more. Back up. So I want to confirm, so the red area of the steep slopes that are greater than 15 percent. THE WITNESS: Corrects. MR. PLOCKER: So all those houses where we see red surrounding, they were built on slopes greater than 15 percent? THE WITNESS: Or they're having slopes around the house that are greater than 15 percent. These houses were built before there was any steep slope

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 75 regulations or recommendation, so. MR. PLOCKER: Okay. Those houses are still there today, as far as you know? THE WITNESS: Yeah. MR. PLOCKER: Okay. And just one more question about, you were talking about forested areas, would any of the GIS mapping take into consideration the condition of the forest on the ground level? THE WITNESS: What do you mean, on the ground level? MR. PLOCKER: Deer browse. THE WITNESS: That's kind of a site specific type of thing. MR. PLOCKER: Okay. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. MR. AFRAN: Mr. Chairman, I would like to raise an objection to the last question. The fact that on some lots there may be steep slopes does not mean houses can't be built on them. Also doesn't mean that the houses are on the steep slopes. Mr. Plocker's trying create the impression that somehow these houses are sitting there on the steep slope. Nobody would ever build them on the slope. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: He just asked a question.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 76 He didn't leave an impression. That's what you do, sir. MR. PLOCKER: You do leave lots of impressions. MR. AFRAN: I'm leaving an impression he didn't leave. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you, sir. Please come right up. THE PUBLIC: Thank you. My name is Michael Marucci, M-A-R-U-C-C-I. Professor, thank you very much for your testimony and your lecture this evening. On one of your slides, and you passed over it very briefly, but it seems significant to me, you indicated that this development would add an additional 2700 or more auto trips daily. Is that correct? MR. PLOCKER: Objection. He didn't testify as a traffic engineer. MR. AFRAN: Well, he did testify specifically to the number of trips that the record shows. And so that was part of his testimony and there was no objection I must add. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Wait, hold on. Let's go back to the slide and see what the slide says. Okay. MR. AFRAN: Fine. THE PUBLIC: There it is.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 77 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Where did that number come from, sir? THE WITNESS: That number came from, came from the engineers who's going to testify. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Let the engineer testify. That's not your information. THE WITNESS: Well, my -- CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: It's not testimony yet. You put up somebody else's information, therefore you didn't testify knowing you were not an expert in traffic. THE WITNESS: I am not an expert in traffic but this is not trying to be creating exact numbers. This is trying to give a sense of the trips per day that this layout post. My original number was actually just based on the average. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Let the expert testify, please. Is there a traffic expert that will testify this evening? THE PUBLIC: Where does that leave me? CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Your answers coming shortly. THE PUBLIC: Thank you. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Any other members of the

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 78 public have any questions? Seeing none. Done. Thank you, sir. (Whereupon, a short recess is taken.) CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Good evening ladies and gentlemen on zoom and here in chambers. We are back on the record. MR. AFRAN: Councilwoman Scarpa, she will be back shortly. Mr. Chairman, we are going to call a member of the West -- South Orange Environmental Commission to read a statement, named Juliana. We're going to call a member of the South Orange Environmental Commission to read a statement of the commission. The members name is Juliana Garrefra. I believe the statement was previously e-mailed to counsel, I don't know if Mr. Plocker received a copy. MR. PLOCKER: No, I never got sent anything, for the record. Thank you. MS. MCGOVERN: I don't remember if I got it or not. I don't have a copy of it. MR. AFRAN: This would be, I believe we are -- we'll make it -- MS. MCGOVERN: O-23. MR. AFRAN: O-23.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 79 MS. MCGOVERN: And this is -- what are we calling it? MR. AFRAN: This will be Statement of the South Orange Environmental Commission read by member Juliana Garreffa and her last name is spelled, G-A-R-R-E-F-F-A. CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, are you representing, you have the authority -- Mr. Afran, do you have the authority to represent the South Orange Environmental Commission? Are you an officer. THE WITNESS: I am one of the Environmental Commissioners of South Orange and the chair, our chair could not be here today so I -- MS. MCGOVERN: Could you please give us your full name and spell your last name. THE WITNESS: My name is Juliana Garreffa. My last name is spelled, G-A-R-R-E-F-F-A. MS. MCGOVERN: Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. THE WITNESS: I do. J U L I A N A G A R R E F F A, having been duly sworn testifies as follows: MS. MCGOVERN: Thank you. You are going to read a statement?

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 80 THE WITNESS: Yes. As I said, with the support of South Orange, the South Orange Environmental Commission has written this statement, "Dear Mayor McCartney, members of West Orange Town Council and Planning Board; "The South Orange Environmental Commission has reviewed and discussed the development proposed by Garden Homes on the 120 acre property at Block 179, Lot 32, known as the West Essex Highlands. Together, we have reached the conclusion that the proposed development would be harmful to the surrounding communities. As such, we formally urge the Township of West Orange to deny this application and preserve the 120 acre forest at the Second Watching Mountain and Ridge. Our reasoning includes the following facts: The 120 acres property at Block1 79, Lot 32, known as the West Essex Highlands, is a core forest, a critical environmental facet of Essex County, New Jersey providing essential habitat and water resources; and Waters from this forested land feed the Canoe Brook tributary and replenish critical aquifers that contribute to the NJ American Water, providing drinking water for 2.9 million New Jersey residents, in more than 190 communities; and Replacing old growth trees that filter groundwater with impervious surfaces causes extensive