January 14, 2026, Planning Board Special Meeting - WEHI Transcript

11 of 53 sheets Page 41 to 44 of 122 02/03/2026 04:49:05 PM 41 board should be permitted to consider in terms of its a1 legal argument and they're dealing with the land use2 part.3 THE PUBLIC: I appreciate that. I could be4 dead by the time that happens and I'll have forgotten,5 it won't be available. I would like to have it marked6 and entered. I appreciate that.7 MS. McGOVERN: So noted.8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: We won't forget you.9 THE PUBLIC: Well, we have been here a long10 time.11 Okay.12 MS. McGOVERN: And that's it? Any others?13 THE PUBLIC: So --14 MS. McGOVERN: Give them to Jamilet and she15 will hold them in the file marked by identification and16 should anybody want to OPRA them they could get them and17 if we end up in court and somebody asks for discovery of18 every document produced they will be produced.19 THE PUBLIC: Thank you.20 I have just one last item and it's the most21 recent series, if you will. And that has to do with my22 actually appearing here twice, once on September 10,23 once on November 10, and a series of voice e-mails and24 letters that were sent to Susan Gruel your fourth round25 42 housing element fair share planner and disclosures that1 were made that were presented to everybody here, not in2 this matter but in the housing element, for the reasons3 that did not meet eligibility criteria now when the plan4 was reached, nor did it the last time. Last time can be5 moot this time is not. And I brought a copy of the6 document set and in fact the book that I made sure it7 was served that night, so we're clear. Jamilet's got8 that on file. The correspondence from councils here.9 MS. McGOVERN: The board is not reviewing10 that for this application. Again, it's a legal issue.11 That'll end up perhaps in court.12 THE PUBLIC: As long as it's marked we can13 explain it later.14 MS. McGOVERN: Just ID number seven.15 MR. PLOCKER: May I say something for the16 record with respect to the documents Mr. Pannullo was17 just referring to. I believe I was provided with a copy18 of it at one point, and I will say for the record, that19 that's an issue that was made to Ms. Gruel, who I20 believe is the towns current affordable housing planner,21 in connection with this boards consideration of the22 towns fourth round plan.23 THE PUBLIC: Correct.24 MR. PLOCKER: Thank you.25 43 THE PUBLIC: Correct.1 MR. AFRAN: Let me just note --2 THE PUBLIC: You're on

ction with this boards consideration of the22 towns fourth round plan.23 THE PUBLIC: Correct.24 MR. PLOCKER: Thank you.25 43 THE PUBLIC: Correct.1 MR. AFRAN: Let me just note --2 THE PUBLIC: You're on the string, Bryan.3 You get the e-mails as well.4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Afran.5 MR. AFRAN: I need a moment to look at this.6 I'm sorry.7 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. Mr. Afran, take a8 moment.9 (Whereupon, a short recess is taken.)10 MS. McGOVERN: One last document marked as11 Objector ID-7, letters to -- I'm sorry. Objector ID-8,12 e-mails from Mr. Pannullo to Ms. Gruel objecting to the13 affordable housing plan. That's what we were going to14 call it, wasn't it?15 MR. AFRAN: Isn't that ID-7?16 MS. McGOVERN: ID-7, all right.17 MR. AFRAN: I think the binder part of that18 should be 7A, I think.19 MS. McGOVERN: Okay. Make it ID-8, the20 binder. All right.21 MR. AFRAN: Okay. The binder.22 MS. McGOVERN: So the binder from Pannullo23 to Gruel. Okay. All right.24 MR. AFRAN: Just for the record, Exhibit25 44 ID-7 is a two page letter.1 MS. McGOVERN: Two page letter and then2 eight is the binder. Okay.3 THE PUBLIC: And then I'm done, but this is4 not a comment, this is a recitation from the transcript5 from the very first meeting and it's actually, Chairman6 Bagoff when you introduced this application you said at7 the end of Page 13, "The board will listen to the8 testimony of all witnesses, the applicants witnesses,9 witnesses who may provide opposing viewpoints and the10 boards own experts to determine if the application11 satisfies both the site plan, requirements of the12 township ordinance, as well as the zoning ordinance that13 applies to this development. I want to take this14 opportunity to thank you for joining us in the public15 process and look forward to hearing from you all in16 person and on zoom. Thank you very much on behalf the17 Planning Board." I note that I don't think anybody here18 has been allowed to communicate, speak via zoom, all19 though that was your representation, your own words,20 that night. It is winter, a lot of people are21 snowbird's. I wanted to point that out for the record,22 and I appreciate it. Thank you.23 MR. AFRAN: Chairman, one more housekeeping24 thing. Another gentleman came up to me and said he had25

02/03/2026 04:49:05 PM Page 45 to 48 of 122 12 of 53 sheets 45 some additional documents, I discussed this with Ms.1 McGovern, it was agreed, Mr. Plocker wasn't part of it,2 I'm sure he has no objection, that we are not done at3 the end of public comment, exhibits that aren't properly4 marked can be identified and we suggest doing that at5 the end of public comment.6 MS. McGOVERN: Somebody thinks something was7 supposed to have been on the agenda that was marked that8 somehow didn't get on the agenda, then bring the9 document and we'll search to see why we don't have it.10 Or why we didn't have it. We are not introducing new11 testimony, testimony is closed, we are now going to12 public comment.13 MR. AFRAN: But as far as --14 MS. McGOVERN: But we will go through15 organizational matters of evidence. We'll make sure we16 have all of the evidence that we're supposed to have in17 the record.18 MR. AFRAN: Yeah, I am not entirely sure I19 agree with one point, Ms. McGovern. Public comment is20 also evidence and a member of the public can introduce21 evidence if they choose to.22 MS. McGOVERN: Their five minutes they can23 make that presentation and, yes, yes, it is evidence,24 but it's not cross-examination. There is no questions25 46 back and forth.1 MR. AFRAN: I have no intention of2 cross-examining anyone in West Orange again.3 MS. McGOVERN: All though I misspoke, I4 think if the attorney for the applicant would like to5 cross-examine a person making a public comment.6 MR. PLOCKER: I believe the Land Use Law7 states that, but I don't intend to.8 MS. McGOVERN: Okay.9 MR. AFRAN: It's discouraged.10 MS. McGOVERN: But public comment means the11 people are not questioning, they're giving comment.12 MR. AFRAN: Right.13 THE PUBLIC: Is there a procedure where we14 go through or you go through all the exhibits in15 evidence before you close the record and public comment16 starts?17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: No. Public comment is18 going to start now.19 THE PUBLIC: That wasn't my question. Is20 there a process by which all the evidence and documents21 submitted --22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Yes, we'll be doing that23 throughout the couple of weeks and go through Jamilet24 and if somebody finds something they believe, as Ms.25 47 McGovern said, should have been on the record, we missed1 it, we will review it and if it's presented it would be2 put on the agenda.3 THE PUBLIC: How is

body finds something they believe, as Ms.25 47 McGovern said, should have been on the record, we missed1 it, we will review it and if it's presented it would be2 put on the agenda.3 THE PUBLIC: How is somebody being a part of4 the public actually have something you didn't review,5 how would we know?6 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: They present it to Jamilet7 who will give it to the board attorney.8 THE PUBLIC: Does that review go on to the9 public, is my question?10 MS. McGOVERN: The public has the agenda,11 all of the documents are on there.12 THE PUBLIC: What's missing on the agenda is13 the point. That's my point.14 MS. McGOVERN: We don't know what's missing15 unless somebody brings it to our attention.16 THE PUBLIC: Okay. Thank you.17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you.18 THE PUBLIC: Good evening, Mr. Chairman. In19 light of that, what we were just talking about, I have20 two documents.21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Sir, state your name.22 THE PUBLIC: Jack McElroy. It's not public23 comment yet. I am just adding to what Mr. Pannullo just24 did. These are documents submitted previously --25 48 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You said, we, who is we?1 THE PUBLIC: That were previously submitted2 in the July meeting. You don't have these minutes3 online, so I couldn't get the exact date, but these are4 documents that were submitted by the Verona Planning5 Board attorney Mr. Mascera.6 MS. McGOVERN: They're on the agenda.7 THE PUBLIC: They're not listed on the8 website on all the documents you have.9 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: What's the date, sir?10 THE PUBLIC: One is the July meeting, but11 again, since the minutes aren't put up I didn't have the12 exact --13 MS. McGOVERN: The minutes are all there.14 You got the last one today from December, so that was15 there too.16 THE PUBLIC: The documents are September 25,17 Verona Planning Board resolution.18 MS. McGOVERN: Yeah, O-20, Verona --19 No, that's the Verona Environmental20 Commission.21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: The resolution number 202422 resolution.23 MS. McGOVERN: Resolution November 7, 198424 from West Orange Planning Board and Oval Road. Okay, I25

13 of 53 sheets Page 49 to 52 of 122 02/03/2026 04:49:05 PM 49 actually remember this now. It's coming back to me.1 Mr. Mascera showed up here and he did not have the2 records and when he did get the records it had to do3 with the resolution, the records he brought was a4 resolution dated November 7, 1984 from West Orange by5 West Orange Planning Board and Oval Road agreement6 between Essex Fells and West Orange 1987.7 THE PUBLIC: That was submitted by the Essex8 Fells mayor, Mayor Mr. Davis.9 MS. McGOVERN: He never introduced them. We10 don't have that. He never came back with what he said11 he was going to produce. Wait, Verona resolution.12 THE PUBLIC: That's a resolution from the13 township.14 MS. McGOVERN: O-2, owner resolution from15 the town.16 THE PUBLIC: Believe me, I looked through17 this list six or seven times.18 MS. McGOVERN: What do you contend Mr.19 Mascera gave to us that we don't have in the record?20 THE PUBLIC: Verona Planning Board21 resolution September 25, 1980. It was the agreement22 made with this developer pertaining to the restrictive23 covenant on the two lots that are not included in the24 redevelopment plan by West Orange.25 50 MS. McGOVERN: On Verona's property?1 THE PUBLIC: Yes. And it's the July 28,2 1983 Verona Planning Board resolution specifically3 speaking to the same.4 MS. McGOVERN: Okay. Give it to Jamilet and5 we'll mark those O --6 MR. PLOCKER: For identification, correct?7 MS. McGOVERN: For identification, Objector8 ID --9 MR. AFRAN: Well, I would argue that they10 should be --11 MS. McGOVERN: Can I see them.12 MR. AFRAN: I think they should be in13 evidence because the board can take public notice of the14 public acts of other governmental body's and therefore15 since it relates factually to the issues that have been16 discussed it should not just be for ID, it should be for17 evidence.18 MS. McGOVERN: Okay. We can mark this.19 We'll do this one as Objector-41.20 MR. PLOCKER: Mr. Chairman. I may not have21 an objection to them being admitted into evidence, but I22 have not seen them. I have not reviewed them. I know23 the witness, the person offering them, I think it was24 Mr. McElroy, is it? I don't want to mispronounce your25 51 name. Like I said, you are handing them to me now, but1 I haven't seen it. He said there were no minutes2 available, I can check the minutes and the accompanying3 transcript from the July

ce your25 51 name. Like I said, you are handing them to me now, but1 I haven't seen it. He said there were no minutes2 available, I can check the minutes and the accompanying3 transcript from the July meeting are on the website. I4 would just like to look and see how they were referenced5 by Mr. Mascera, and I am not doubting the witnesses6 voracity, but could we just mark them for identification7 at this point.8 MS. McGOVERN: I am going to mark them,9 absolutely. He did come and talk about them and did10 submit them after the fact and they deal with Verona11 property not West Orange. The lots and blocks were12 listed.13 THE PUBLIC: But it was an agreement with14 the entire property.15 MS. McGOVERN: The document speaks for16 itself.17 THE PUBLIC: Even --18 MS. McGOVERN: The document speaks for19 itself and a judge, if need be, if this goes past this.20 The reason why we are going to move them in as objector21 exhibits, is Mr. Mascera did speak about them and then22 he never brought them here, but he did e-mail them to23 me. So that's -- technically he should have come back24 with them, the way he said he was going to, but we can25 52 see they're official documents and so it'll be added to1 the agenda record.2 MR. AFRAN: Could you state a number for3 each dated one?4 MS. McGOVERN: O-41, resolution from Verona5 dated September 25, 1980. Okay.6 42, resolution, July 8, 1983.7 THE PUBLIC: And to save time in the future,8 I just want to also note that I looked through the9 documents, we have the document of, letter from Verona,10 what's the other one. Verona Environmental Commission,11 South Orange, West Orange and Essex County just got12 registered. I know at some point they were sent in from13 Caldwell, Maplewood and Livingston also.14 MS. McGOVERN: They --15 THE PUBLIC: E-mailed or someone was here to16 --17 MS. McGOVERN: No, he came here. They18 clearly read them and that was done.19 We're done with Maplewood.20 THE PUBLIC: Maplewood was read, right?21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay.22 Again, you have five minutes. Come up.23 Please speak to the application before us, information24 that you believe will help the Planning Board make their25

02/03/2026 04:49:05 PM Page 53 to 56 of 122 14 of 53 sheets 53 decision based on testimony, your feelings and how this1 process has gone on so far. So state you name for the2 record?3 THE PUBLIC: My name is Jonathan Poor,4 P-O-O-R.5 MS. McGOVERN: Jonathan.6 THE PUBLIC: Jonathan Poor.7 MS. McGOVERN: Do you swear or affirm to8 tell the truth nothing but the truth.9 THE WITNESS: I do.10 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Sir, go right ahead.11 THE PUBLIC: I am here to read a letter from12 the Maplewood Environmental Advisory Committee. I was13 told that I wasn't able to read it into the record14 before public comment, so I am here during public15 comment to do it.16 Thank you for being willing to serve on the17 Planning Board members. I know it's quite time18 consuming. The Maplewood Environmental Committee19 Advisory Committee strongly urges the Township of West20 Orange to reject the proposal by Garden Homes to build21 nearly 500 homes on a 120 acre property known as West22 Essex Highlands, an old growth forest that contains tens23 of thousands of trees. This site is the last24 unprotected core forest on Watching Mountains Second25 54 Ridge. It has been designated by town and county as an1 important preservation site. As such it is an obvious2 target for acquisition for either green acres or open3 space funding.4 Risks to local flooding and region wide5 drinking water, including Maplewoods water supply, are6 significant as detailed in the report form Princeton7 Hydro. Drinking water from Maplewood's more than 25,0008 residents could be affected from runoff from this9 property. Given the current critical state of action to10 stop or ameliorate the effects of climate change it is11 more important than ever to preserve this core forest12 which provides benefits of sequestering carbon,13 preventing flooding and stormwater runoff, protecting14 air quality among others.15 We also understand from other commentor's16 and experts in the field that the proposed project is17 not in compliance with the new New Jersey DEP stormwater18 regulations.19 For these reasons the Maplewood20 Environmental Advisory Committee urges the Township of21 West Orange to reject the proposed 496 unit development22 on said lands and preserve a 120 acres of forested land23 in perpetuity.24 Please note that the Maplewood Township25 55 Committee as indicated in a separate letter has also1 voted unanimously to

ent22 on said lands and preserve a 120 acres of forested land23 in perpetuity.24 Please note that the Maplewood Township25 55 Committee as indicated in a separate letter has also1 voted unanimously to communicate it's opposition to this2 developer.3 Given the strong public interest and public4 purpose that would be furthered by the preservation of5 this parcel, the Maplewood EAC encourages the Township6 of West Orange to pursue Green Acres or other funds to7 acquire this property for preservation, use and8 enjoyment by members of the public both township and the9 region.10 Please let us know if the Township of11 Maplewood or our committee can be helpful to support12 West Orange in securing this parcel.13 Sincerely, Maplewood Environmental14 Committee. Thank you.15 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you very much.16 Any other members of the public have any17 comment about the application? Please come up and be18 identified.19 Any members of the public have a comment20 about the application? Come up and be identified.21 THE PUBLIC: Good evening, Mr. Chairman.22 Before I begin my comment, I would like to request that23 I spend three minutes speaking and two minutes on24 formally showing a set of slides into the record as an25 56 exhibit. The slides contain photographs I personally1 took on Howell Drive showing the slope conditions and2 then the next images are using Google Maps.3 MR. PLOCKER: I thought the record was4 closed. This is public comment, correct?5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: He has a comment.6 MS. McGOVERN: It's a comment. He is7 illustrating his comment.8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Sit down, Mr. Afran. I9 got it.10 MR. PLOCKER: That's fine.11 MR. AFRAN: Our position is the public can12 offer evidence, including documented evidence.13 THE PUBLIC: I do actually have --14 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Guys. Let's have a little15 order. Okay. I understand what you're saying. My16 decision, I made it, you can show it. Okay.17 Joe, can you put it up? Good.18 Do you want to talk while he's doing that?19 THE PUBLIC: I'm going to speak first and20 then two minutes on that.21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Yeah. Go ahead.22 MR. PLOCKER: Could we, for the record,23 confirm, Mr. Weisleder's address.24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Go ahead.25

15 of 53 sheets Page 57 to 60 of 122 02/03/2026 04:49:05 PM 57 MS. McGOVERN: I have to swear you in. Put1 your name on record and address.2 THE WITNESS: Seth Weisleder, 17 Howell3 Drive, West Orange, New Jersey.4 MS. McGOVERN: Do you swear or affirm to5 tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth.6 THE PUBLIC: I do.7 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Go right8 ahead.9 THE PUBLIC: Good evening, Chair, members of10 the board. My name is Seth Weisleder, 17 Howell Drive.11 Directly -- I live directly below the proposed emergency12 access road and catty-cornered to Building D. Before I13 begin, I would like to ask you all something for a14 moment, please. Close your eyes and picture yourself15 living on Howell Drive. You're standing in a backyard16 looking up at the wooded ridge, a ridge that has always17 given our neighborhood peace, privacy and stability.18 Now imagine everything else already being built on top19 of that ridge and now imagine that same ridge being20 blasted, cut open and reshaped for a five story21 building, the largest in the entire West Essex Highlands22 project, pushed 50 feet closer to the cliffs edge than23 the original design and that the building would only sit24 a few hundred feet from your roof line and the main road25 58 on Howell Drive. That is what we, the residents, of1 Howell Drive are facing. Building D is the largest,2 tallest, closest structure to existing homes and the3 only -- and the only one placed directly on the steep4 slope made of two different types of rock, sand, salt5 and basalt. Each reacting differently under stress,6 water and excavation.7 The township commissioned CME stability to8 review and made several important points. They found9 discrepancies, also found there was no field testing or10 slope mottling. Neither engineer properly analyzed11 heavily rainfall impacts or groundwater response. CME12 recommended further slope evaluations because the13 Hillside is not behaving as the uniform predictable14 structure.15 We also have two recent local examples which16 have been already commented at 955 Pleasant Valley Way17 where construction was done and people have come to18 council complaining about slope issues. And case number19 two, the Ron Jolyn disaster. The townships own20 engineering report found conditions conducive to21 periodic rock fall following the issues and continuing22 drainage issues there. If we

case number19 two, the Ron Jolyn disaster. The townships own20 engineering report found conditions conducive to21 periodic rock fall following the issues and continuing22 drainage issues there. If we ignore these warnings,23 Howell Drive needs to be positioned to be case number24 three.25 59 Beyond safety there is a major quality of1 life impact. Building D will tower above our homes2 bringing shadows, noise, light, balconies and rooftop3 activity directly into our backyards. It will alter the4 character of our neighborhood and reduce our property5 value.6 An OPRA request by myself confirmed there7 was no proof and can't be found of the green cards8 required to notice Howell Drive residents before that9 zoning overlay was adopted. A failure of transparency10 and process.11 Developers renderings leave out Howell Drive12 homes entirely, hiding how close this structure really13 is. We also don't have clear answers about emergency14 access roads. It's exact distance from our homes,15 whether it includes sidewalks, stormwater from that16 road, how that will be managed on this unstable slope.17 Given all this I respectfully urge the board18 to vote no on Building D as currently proposed. A no19 tonight is not antidevelopment, it's pro safety, pro20 transparency and pro West Orange. A responsibile path21 forward would include re-sitting or rescaling Building D22 away from the ridge and a full independent geotechnical23 redesign with real feel testing. Accurate scale visual24 overlays that show Howell Drive and our homes and as25 60 required by law and basic fairness.1 Any board member who was directly involved2 in the settlement agreement behind closed doors or3 overlaid discussions should recuse themselves, public4 confidence depends on impartial decision making.5 A yes tonight repeats past mistakes in this6 town. A no opens the door to a safer, smarter and more7 responsible plan.8 Thank you for taking time to picture what it9 truly will feel like to live on Howell Drive.10 I do have copies of the slides, I can11 provide them.12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: That would be great.13 Thank you.14 THE PUBLIC: This is what I already15 mentioned, environmental stormwater, quality of life16 concerns and legal. I am going to try to move quickly17 here.18 Built on the cliffs edge. Habitat impact.19 Discrepancies on the applicants and objectors expert20 testimony on slope stability and