12 12 24 PSEG West Orange BOA ZB 24 06 PSEG 35 Mt Pleasant Ave Full Size

Page 51 1 mandated, you have clearance standards that are 2 mandated. 3 And, you know, it's really not up to a 4 municipality to tell the utility how to run their 5 business when they're directed by the New Jersey 6 Board of Public Utilities to begin with. 7 So all we can do is suggest. Over the 8 years, as the Board of Public Utilities has changed 9 their pruning standards, we went from having large 10 trees under wires that were -- that were 11 directionally pruned around wires to the fact that, 12 you know, we have to plant compact trees under wires 13 now at -- because the standards are just so strict 14 that it's impossible to have matching tree species 15 going down a street where there's overhead wires. 16 So we've had -- you know, 17 municipalities have had to change their methods of 18 providing street trees, you know, all because of the 19 different standards over the years. 20 So in terms of a large transmission 21 station such as this, where security is a problem and 22 everything else, there's so many factors that are 23 involved. 24 But all I can say is there's some very 25 nice trees on this site which I would hope that you

Page 52 1 could alter your plans to preserve as many as 2 possible. 3 Because right now, the way it looks to 4 me, in my -- my view of the site, it looks like you 5 targeted the largest, oldest trees on the site to be 6 removed. 7 And so it -- you know, it just -- it's 8 a disconnect for me. But I don't have all of the 9 information that you do. 10 Q. Thank you. 11 And are you aware of, in connection 12 with this application, the need for the new equipment 13 to locate -- to be located on the site in close 14 proximity to the existing equipment? 15 A. I'm not aware of that, you know, the 16 methods that are -- that are necessary. 17 My understanding of electric 18 transmission is pretty much confined to plugging into 19 an outlet. 20 So I don't begin to, you know, 21 understand or even -- my ability to comment on what 22 your equipment needs are on the site and where they 23 should be placed. 24 It's not a large site. You probably 25 don't have a lot of opportunities. But if you do

Page 53 1 have any opportunities that could save trees, we'd 2 like to see -- see you do that. 3 Q. Thank you. 4 Are you aware of or familiar with 5 provisions governing distances from trees to 6 electrical equipment, with the tree fall area, so to 7 speak? 8 A. Well, it's usually 10 feet to energize 9 conductors, that's the close proximity act. 10 But, you know, we have -- in terms of 11 distribution, we have, you know, single phase 12 electric primary, you have open wire primary on a tee 13 on top of a pole. That requires, you know, greater 14 -- greater clearance, but -- and it, you know, 15 there's all different kinds of configurations. 16 But all I know is 10 feet is about as 17 close as you want to get to anything other than house 18 service. You know, which most tree companies are -- 19 and many public works departments are capable of 20 clearing a house service, but not an electric 21 primary. 22 Q. And have you ever personally 23 experienced or experienced in connection with one of 24 the jobs that you worked on an outage, an electrical 25 outage associated with a tree that fell on a power

Page 54 1 line or power equipment? 2 A. Oh, yes. 3 All the time. 4 Q. And is it your understanding that it is 5 for that reason why there are tree clearance 6 requirements in place? 7 A. Yes. 8 You know, one of the pet peeves that 9 most municipalities have is when a utility attaches a 10 span guide from a utility pole to a tree. 11 And we had a humerus situation in West 12 Orange a few years ago where the tree -- there was a 13 span guide attached to a town tree, and the tree fell 14 over and it pulled the utility pole down. 15 It is -- so, so there's always -- there 16 is always interaction with the utility companies and, 17 you know, there is always an issue when a tree dies 18 and the cooperation is requested and needed from a 19 utility company in providing assistance to a 20 municipality in removing trees. 21 And, you know, for the most part, you 22 know, West Orange has maintained a good relationship 23 with Public Service over the years. 24 And, you know, it's -- it's, you know, 25 one hand washes the other.

Page 55 1 Q. Thank you. 2 Do you have any familiarity with 3 IEEE 979, which recommends trees located 30 -- be 4 located 30 feet beyond the fall potential to 5 structures? 6 A. Yeah, that's beyond my knowledge. 7 Q. Okay, thank you. 8 A. I'm not a utility arborist. 9 Q. Are you aware of any trees on PSE&G's 10 site which are, either by statute or by regulation, 11 specifically preserved? 12 A. I'm not aware of any on the site. I 13 just -- I just know you got some pretty large trees 14 over there. 15 Q. Thank you. 16 And, lastly, are you familiar with the 17 topography of this site? 18 A. Visually, yes. 19 You know, just from the outside looking 20 in. 21 Q. So you are familiar with it, how it 22 slopes downward? 23 A. Absolutely. 24 Q. Okay, thank you. 25 MS. PORTER: Okay.

Page 56 1 I have no further questions. 2 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Members of the board? 3 Let's start with Mr. Schwarzbaum and 4 work our way through. 5 VICE CHAIRMAN SCHWARZBAUM: So, 6 Mr. Linson, I think you testified that your -- you 7 are opining that certain trees should be removed -- 8 should not be removed, sorry. 9 Is that correct? 10 THE WITNESS: That's correct. 11 VICE CHAIRMAN SCHWARZBAUM: And you 12 also testified that you -- that your opinion -- that 13 you didn't look at what the actual construction needs 14 of the utility are. 15 Is that correct? 16 THE WITNESS: That's correct. 17 VICE CHAIRMAN SCHWARZBAUM: So in your 18 professional opinion, have you ever removed trees 19 because of construction needs? 20 THE WITNESS: Oh, all the time. If you 21 can't make a tree safe, if the root system is 22 compromised, if there is a structural deficiency in 23 the tree, they need to be removed. 24 VICE CHAIRMAN SCHWARZBAUM: So the -- 25 THE WITNESS: Safety first.

Page 57 1 VICE CHAIRMAN SCHWARZBAUM: Okay. So 2 is there a reason why you didn't look at the 3 construction plans of where the substation is? 4 THE WITNESS: Well, basically I was -- 5 my -- I was engaged only to interact about the trees 6 themselves. I was not shown the replacement 7 landscape plan or any of the -- the soils or -- or 8 even the -- topography map. I didn't see any of 9 that, I just saw TR-01, 02, 03. 10 VICE CHAIRMAN SCHWARZBAUM: Okay. So I 11 guess where -- what I am asking is, you're opining 12 based upon just one item as opposed to looking at the 13 overall project. 14 Is that correct? 15 THE WITNESS: That's exactly right. 16 So, you know, I'm looking at these as 17 specimen trees, and I'm looking at the purpose of the 18 ordinance is to preserve them to the greatest extent 19 possible. And I'm introducing the possibility that 20 maybe -- maybe not all of these trees have been 21 looked at individually as possible candidates for 22 preservation with altering the facility. 23 I would only -- only, you know, an 24 engineer designing the facility can say what the 25 possibilities may be. I just say that there is room

Page 58 1 closer to Prospect Avenue to run these -- it looks 2 like -- I am speculating that it's -- that it's a 3 water detention facilities, but it seems to me that 4 if they remove closer to Prospect Avenue, should be 5 able to save a number of these trees. 6 VICE CHAIRMAN SCHWARZBAUM: Is that 7 what -- I don't know since I haven't read a report, 8 is that what that -- this -- the -- who's the 9 engineer? Mr. Blanton is going to -- Ms. Blanton is 10 going to testify? 11 MR. TURTELTAUB: Yes, we'll get into 12 some of that testimony. 13 VICE CHAIRMAN SCHWARZBAUM: I guess 14 I'm -- I'm just asking that, while I respect you as 15 an expert, I'm having a difficult time looking at 16 accepting expert testimony without looking at the 17 overall project. 18 And, you know, as you testified, there 19 are circumstances when you can remove trees. 20 Is that correct? 21 THE WITNESS: That's correct. 22 VICE CHAIRMAN SCHWARZBAUM: And there 23 -- you also testified that we have one of the 24 strictest tree replacement ordinances in the state. 25 THE WITNESS: That's true.

Page 59 1 VICE CHAIRMAN SCHWARZBAUM: Okay. 2 That's it. 3 I just have -- I am a having a hard 4 time connecting the dots. 5 That's all I have to say. 6 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Thank you, 7 Mr. Schwarzbaum. 8 Mr. Barbee, you're up next. 9 MR. BARBEE: Initially I did have a 10 question, but Irv did touch on it because of the lack 11 of -- well, no. 12 I have no question. I'll leave it 13 there. 14 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Thank you, Mr. Barbee. 15 Mr. Eben, questions for this witness 16 based on his testimony? 17 MR. EBEN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 18 Mr. Linson, in accordance with this 19 last testimony that you were doing answering 20 questioning from -- 21 THE WITNESS: Could you repeat that 22 because I'm a little hard of hearing and if somebody 23 could express that a little louder. 24 Was that a question? 25 MR. EBEN: Hold on, I'm just trying to

Page 60 1 get my thoughts together. 2 You testified -- you testified that 3 tree maintenance is basically every ten years. 4 THE WITNESS: Yes. 5 MR. EBEN: That means whoever owns the 6 property has to come in on the property and direct a 7 contractor what to do. 8 And we -- we don't know or maybe you do 9 know, did PSE&G do that through the course of 10 100 years of owning the property. 11 THE WITNESS: It's -- it's generally 12 accepted that most trees need some form of 13 maintenance at least once every ten years and some 14 trees more frequently than that, particularly some of 15 these older pin oak trees, when a branch dies it's 16 eight inches in diameter and 40-feet long and it's 17 hanging over the street. You know, you can't wait 18 ten years to prune it, you got to get it before it 19 falls and causes damage. 20 So, but, you know, these trees, they're 21 -- there's been a low level of maintenance on this 22 site, and that's why there's been so many invasive 23 species, involuntary species that have popped up over 24 -- over the years, simply because they -- they 25 weren't -- you know, they didn't mow the areas or