12 12 24 PSEG West Orange BOA ZB 24 06 PSEG 35 Mt Pleasant Ave Full Size

Page 61 1 whatever and they allowed these trees to grow up in 2 their -- in place of grass. 3 MR. EBEN: These trees need a certain 4 amount of area to breathe for them to be -- maybe 5 that's the wrong term, but you can't have a tree next 6 to another tree, it's like six inches away. 7 How does one tree -- it needs room to 8 grow, correct? 9 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 10 Well, the trees that are in a park or 11 along a street, the exposure to the public 12 necessitates that they be maintained at a higher 13 level. 14 This is an isolated location where 15 access is limited for security reasons and 16 consequently, the safety factor to the public is nil. 17 I mean, trees still pose a threat. I believe there 18 was reference to Walter Kipp and citing some trees 19 that needed to be removed on the site. 20 And that's the one thing about TR-2 and 21 -3. It didn't indicate the condition of the trees, 22 it just gave the diameter and the species and was it 23 going to be preserved or removed. Many of those 24 trees could have -- the reason for the removal could 25 be because they were in poor condition and they were

Page 62 1 -- removal was warranted. 2 So it's -- more information could have 3 been a little helpful. 4 MR. EBEN: What about the fact that 5 development, West Orange has had development over the 6 years that I have lived in town, and that development 7 is commercial development, because commercial 8 development brings in better tax revenue than just a 9 house here and a house three. 10 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Is there a question, 11 Mr. Eben, please? 12 MR. EBEN: Yes. 13 I'm asking what his experience is with 14 the clearing of trees in a property because you need 15 to have room for an existing tree to breathe and to 16 grow. 17 THE WITNESS: Well, one of the first 18 things they teach you when you go to forestry school 19 is trees are a renewable natural resource. 20 So it's necessary to remove trees. But 21 when you remove trees, it's -- you should be 22 replacing them. 23 And this ordinance does provide for 24 that. You know, if it's determined that a tree has 25 to be removed, there's no other way to work around

Page 63 1 it, then it -- we resort to the required replacement 2 per the table in the ordinance and we have to reduce 3 it to a bean counting situation as opposed to an 4 emotional, aesthetic desire to preserve a healthy 5 specimen tree. 6 MR. EBEN: In your history as a tree 7 expert, have you come across where a developer has to 8 -- looks at the site, and if he's a halfway decent 9 developer or contractor, he has a schedule that he 10 has to meet and sometimes the tree work is in the way 11 of his schedule. 12 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 13 I mean, when you look at a site, you -- 14 your goal is to try to preserve trees around the 15 perimeter of a property that provide a benefit to the 16 public, to adjacent property owners. 17 Every site has setback requirements, 18 and within that, that area that's defined by -- by 19 ordinance, by zoning requirements, activity is 20 permitted, and occasionally you have to go over the 21 line and get a variance to perform the needed 22 improvement on the site. 23 But it's rare, and most developers 24 choose to develop a site conforming with the local 25 ordinances.

Page 64 1 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Anything else, 2 Mr. Eben? 3 MR. EBEN: If you don't -- if you don't 4 conform, what's the -- what's the -- 5 THE WITNESS: Well, there's only -- 6 there's only -- the -- the -- the purpose of a zoning 7 board is to review whether there's a hardship 8 involved or not, and whether -- whether a variance 9 can be granted or not. 10 If there's another way of doing 11 something, then the board would, you know, it most 12 likely would deny an application if -- if it caused 13 diminishing value in the neighborhood or it was -- it 14 was so contrary to all of the other development in 15 the area. 16 If it's too close to the road or too, 17 you know, just too high. It's -- it's too large. 18 You've occupied too much space, so you have a bulk 19 variance need. 20 So, you know, just all of these things 21 have to be weighed and, you know, collectively the 22 members of the board make a decision and 23 recommendation and you -- you vote and, you know, the 24 majority wins. 25 MR. EBEN: Thank you very much.

Page 65 1 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Thank you, Mr. Eben. 2 Mr. Ricci? 3 MR. RICCI: Yes. 4 Mr. Linson, you said you did not look 5 at the rest of the plans other than the tree removal 6 plan. 7 Am I correct? 8 THE WITNESS: That's correct. 9 MR. RICCI: Okay. You said that West 10 Orange has one of the strictest or the strictest tree 11 ordinance that you know of. 12 Is that correct? 13 THE WITNESS: That's correct. 14 MR. RICCI: Okay. You said that if you 15 take down a tree, a large tree, and there was 16 difference sizes, different, you know, 36 to 40, 40 17 to 45, whatever those numbers were, there was a 18 replacement ratio that you had to replace that with, 19 correct? 20 THE WITNESS: That's correct. 21 MR. RICCI: And you said that the 22 current plan meets or exceeds all the requirements of 23 that replacement number. 24 Is that correct? 25 THE WITNESS: That's my understanding

Page 66 1 of Walt Kipp's appraisal of the application, that it 2 complies with the replacement requirements. 3 MR. RICCI: Okay. Then my next 4 question is, twice, when you were talking, you 5 referred to that -- that the meeting the ordinance, 6 but it is a bean counting method. 7 What did you mean by that? 8 THE WITNESS: It's -- it's -- it's what 9 the Township committee, in passing this ordinance, 10 deemed to be justification for removing a healthy 11 tree and compensation for the removal of a healthy 12 tree. 13 And it's stronger than most towns. 14 So, you know, it -- they tried to make 15 the decision, the process as black and white as 16 possible. If this is what you want to do, this is 17 what you're going to have to pay in compensation for 18 the right to remove a healthy tree. And they've -- 19 West Orange has a very, very strict replacement 20 schedule, and it's designed as a deterrent for you 21 not to take a healthy tree down, you know. 22 But, you know, if you really want to do 23 that, I mean, bring it down on a smaller scale. 24 If somebody wants to put a pool in 25 their backyard but they have to remove four big oak

Page 67 1 trees, those oak trees are providing tree canopy 2 coverage. They're for air filtration, heat -- heat 3 island, you know, so they're -- what we're trying to 4 do is balance it. All right, you want to remove a 5 healthy tree? 6 Well, we're going to plant other trees 7 somewhere else in town if you don't do it on your own 8 property. 9 One of the -- one of the most 10 aggressive things I've ever seen in an ordinance is 11 in this ordinance, and it requires existing parking 12 lots to plant trees within the next, I don't know, 13 couple of years. 14 MR. RICCI: That's not part of this 15 application. 16 THE WITNESS: No, but -- but it is -- 17 it is -- I am just, I am just telling you -- 18 CHAIRMAN NEUER: No, Mr. Linson, you're 19 going far afield. You've answered Mr. Ricci's 20 question. 21 Mr. Ricci, do you have any further 22 questions? 23 MR. RICCI: Yes, I'm worried that if 24 the -- the impression I'm getting from you, and you 25 could say I'm right, I'm wrong, is that you --

Page 68 1 despite West Orange having the strictest tree 2 ordinance in the State of New Jersey, despite the 3 fact this Applicant is exceeding all the requirements 4 of all of that, and despite the fact that you said 5 the forester approved all of this, do you feel that 6 the forester who is working presently -- I don't know 7 how to say this nicely -- does not know what he's 8 doing. 9 THE WITNESS: Well, the forester -- the 10 forester's job is to enforce the ordinance. 11 And people may not like the outcome of 12 that, but the ordinance is the ordinance. 13 And the -- but the preamble to this 14 ordinance, before we get to the compensation for 15 removing healthy trees, the purpose is to protect and 16 foster the existence and health of trees growing 17 within the town borders and to preserve the maximum 18 possible trees in the development of this site or 19 lot; to protect specimen trees. Encourage innovative 20 design and grading to promote the protection of the 21 existing trees and to prevent indiscriminate, 22 uncontrolled excessive removal of cutting of trees, 23 et cetera, et cetera. 24 That's right from -- from section C in 25 findings and purpose of this ordinance.

Page 69 1 MR. RICCI: Okay. 2 THE WITNESS: So the question is have 3 we -- has the Applicant preserved the maximum number 4 of trees or not. And you that have seen the rest of 5 the site plans and you've -- you're weighing all of 6 the options of, you know, all I can say is has -- has 7 the Applicant considered altering their plans to 8 preserve more trees. And so that's-- 9 MR. RICCI: Okay, that's all right. 10 THE WITNESS: -- that's basically all 11 -- 12 MR. RICCI: I appreciate your answer. 13 Thank you. 14 THE WITNESS: Okay, all right. 15 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Thank you, Mr. Ricci. 16 Mr. Scott, you're up. 17 MR. SCOTT: Thank you. 18 Can you hear me? 19 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Loud and clear. 20 MR. SCOTT: Tremendous. 21 Mr. Linson, thank you very much for 22 being here. 23 So the term "strictest" has been thrown 24 around tonight and perhaps I'm going to ask you if 25 you meant that West Orange had the strongest tree

Page 70 1 ordinance in the State of New Jersey, not the 2 strictest. 3 THE WITNESS: Could you rephrase that 4 question just -- 5 MR. SCOTT: Would you say that West 6 Orange has the strongest tree ordinance in New Jersey 7 as opposed to the strictest? 8 THE WITNESS: Okay. Now I see what 9 you're saying. 10 Yeah, I would say it is the strongest. 11 I mean, I only have knowledge of municipalities, you 12 know, north of the Raritan pretty much. 13 But I am the contract forester for 14 several towns and I -- I review tree removal 15 applications for several towns. No municipality that 16 I've worked with has an ordinance that is as 17 encompassing as this one is. 18 MR. SCOTT: Thank you. 19 I think it's a very encompassing and 20 strong ordinance also. 21 Would you say that it is perhaps a role 22 model for the rest of the state? 23 THE WITNESS: Well, I have a little bit 24 of a problem with going down to two-inch diameter 25 trees to be removed. You know, if somebody moves