July 31, 2024 Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

: I understand it doesn't 7 apply, but I'd like it -- 8 MR. ANDERSON: So -- 9 MR. ALPER: -- to be used -- 10 MR. ANDERSON: So -- 11 MR. ALPER: -- as an existing 12 definition. 13 MR. ANDERSON: So your slope ordinance 14 starts regulating slopes at 10 percent. Okay? The 15 10 percent point starts about 20 feet off of that 16 corner. 17 MR. ALPER: From the tightest -- 18 MR. ANDERSON: From the tightest 19 point. 20 MR. ALPER: Thank you. 21 MR. PLOCKER: Thanks, Paul. 22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Will there be 23 wayfaring signs throughout the complex, "Go this 24 way," "Go that way," "Building A," "Building B," 25 "Park here"? Page 197 1 MR. APPEL: Not -- oh, I'm sorry. Not 2 part of the application now, but my understanding is 3 that there would be and should be wayfaring signs. 4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Would you consider 5 using solar-powered wayfaring signs? 6 MR. APPEL: That could be a reasonable 7 solution. 8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: And the birds, we'll 9 talk about another time. 10 Mr. Hess. 11 MR. HESS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I 12 have -- Mr. Appel, I have two questions for you. 13 The first is, you spoke about the visitor -- the 14 parking spaces for Building D and that they would be 15 assigned, then you're going to have the visitor 16 spaces. Are the visitor spaces going to be marked 17 for visitors or are they also open to other tenants 18 who may want to have a second vehicle? 19 MR. APPEL: What is proposed right now 20 is that you have assigned stalls -- 21 MR. HESS: Right. 22 MR. APPEL: -- for each unit, and in 23 addition to the signed stalls for each unit, the 24 remainder of the stalls are shared and they will 25 accommodate the .5 stalls per unit for -- for

51 (Pages 198 to 201) Page 198 1 visitors, but they would not be labeled specifically 2 "visitor only," they would just be non-labeled. So 3 you would have an assigned stall or an un-labeled 4 stall. 5 MR. HESS: But are there excess spaces 6 above the .5 per unit? So my question is: If 7 they're not labeled for visitors, then you could 8 potentially have tenants who have a second vehicle 9 that don't have an assigned space that could be 10 using the unassigned parking and taking away spaces 11 that would be there for visitors. So my question 12 is: How do you plan to address that? 13 MR. APPEL: Normally, this is the 14 process that -- 15 MR. HESS: Okay. 16 MR. APPEL: -- we do, we don't just 17 label them specifically as "visitor only" spaces. 18 It tends to work well, that ownership, you know, if 19 they find a problem, they address a problem, but 20 usually it works out well. 21 MR. HESS: And are any assigned spaces 22 proposed in the other buildings? 23 MR. APPEL: Yes, all -- so in Building 24 A, B and C, all of the garage spaces will be 25 assigned. Page 199 1 MR. HESS: Okay. 2 MR. APPEL: It's only D that there's 3 limited surface stalls, so that has some interior 4 unassigned stalls. 5 MR. HESS: Are there excess garage 6 spaces in the other buildings, other than D? 7 MR. APPEL: When you say "excess" -- 8 MR. HESS: Well, if you're -- if 9 you're assigning one space per unit, then are there 10 more than one space per unit in the garage? 11 MR. APPEL: I believe -- I believe so. 12 MR. HESS: Okay. 13 MR. APPEL: And some, you know, some 14 units will be assigned to tandem stall and some 15 units -- 16 MR. HESS: Right. 17 MR. APPEL: -- would be assigned to 18 single stall. 19 MR. HESS: Okay. And then all the 20 spaces on the surface will then -- they'll be open 21 for visitors or -- 22 MR. APPEL: Visitors -- 23 MR. HESS: -- they'll be unassigned? 24 MR. APPEL: You know, visitors, 25 guests, or possibly, you know, residents that are Page 200 1 not parking, you know, inside. They would -- 2 they're just open for anybody. 3 MR. HESS: Okay. The second question 4 is: The plans show that you have one bedroom with 5 dens and two-bedroom units with dens. 6 MR. APPEL: I'm sorry, can you repeat 7 that? I can't hear, there's... 8 MR. HESS: The plans show that you're 9 proposing one-bedroom units with dens and also 10 two-bedroom units with dens. What provisions have 11

m sorry, can you repeat 7 that? I can't hear, there's... 8 MR. HESS: The plans show that you're 9 proposing one-bedroom units with dens and also 10 two-bedroom units with dens. What provisions have 11 you incorporated into the design to keep the dens 12 from being converted to bedrooms? 13 MR. APPEL: In this particular case, 14 we are overparked, so the question is I don't know 15 whether a restriction is needed or valid. Usually 16 the reason you do it is because you don't have 17 enough parking. We have excess parking right now. 18 MR. HESS: Okay. 19 MR. APPEL: So I don't know whether 20 it's necessary to restrict that. 21 MR. HESS: Okay. Thank you. 22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Haizel. 23 MR. HAIZEL: If I can start off with 24 the last response. You said that you -- 25 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Haizel speak up Page 201 1 a little bit. Thank you. 2 MR. HAIZEL: You said that usually you 3 would not restrict that den area. Based on the 4 availability of parking, that would be one thing 5 that would -- would sort of require you to restrict 6 that, but based on the exchange you had with the 7 Council President before due to the unit size, 8 wouldn't a two-bedroom with a den that became a 9 three-bedroom, would that not compromise the space 10 further? 11 MR. APPEL: I'm not -- I don't 12 understand what the question is. 13 MR. HAIZEL: You say that the -- in 14 terms of what Mr. Hess was mentioning about the 15 dens, what is to stop someone taking a two-bedroom 16 with a den and turning it into a three-bedroom, 17 putting a wall up or what have you, to turn that den 18 into a third bedroom? 19 MR. APPEL: Well, I don't know whether 20 they would be permitted to do construction on a 21 unit, but if somebody were to have, let's say, a 22 guest that was going to stay there overnight, would 23 that be a restriction? I don't -- I don't know. I 24 don't know if that's -- that's necessary to make. 25 In some ordinances, the bedroom count is limited or

52 (Pages 202 to 205) Page 202 1 you're limited by parking. In this particular case, 2 we don't have a limitation on here. We're 3 suggesting the dens not to be bedrooms, we've 4 designed them to be extra spaces, like for a home 5 office or a dining space or a hobby room or 6 something like that, but not -- not a bedroom, but I 7 don't know whether a restriction is necessary. 8 MR. HAIZEL: No, I only responded -- I 9 only picked up on that because of the -- what you 10 had said the limitation was based on availability of 11 parking. 12 MR. APPEL: Right. 13 MR. HAIZEL: Other question: The 14 nonconforming situation that you have that is 15 triggering the variance, did I hear you say that 16 there was some visual that you had that showed where 17 that 50 percent maximum was, you know, you've gone 18 over that 50 percent maximum, in which buildings and 19 what areas? 20 MR. APPEL: I don't have a specific 21 visual, but we went through and did calculations 22 for, um, for all of this and that we felt that it 23 was a better design solution to request that relief 24 rather than try to build walls and alter grading in 25 an awkward manner. It's -- Page 203 1 MR. HAIZEL: If I may, Mr. Chair, I 2 would recommend that, because this is the non- 3 conformant variant condition for which a variance 4 would be required, that some sort of a graphic be 5 provided showing the extent to which that is -- 6 because when I look at the -- the elevations in some 7 areas there, it's fairly significant, and I think 8 that someone did ask about if there's a sidewalk 9 adjacent to the buildings. I know buildings that do 10 have this situation, they would not have this on the 11 -- the louvers and so on the front facade, so it 12 kind of keeps the front facade looking like a front 13 facade, but in this case, because of the undulating 14 nature of the site, it's difficult to do that. 15 Last question is: The apartment in the 16 clubhouse that is going to be the model apartment, 17 is there any -- do you have -- is there any intent 18 to have a, for want of a better way of putting this, 19 service quarters or service habitation for -- 20 MR. APPEL: No. 21 MR. HAIZEL: Okay. 22 MR. APPEL: No, and if that needs to 23 be a restriction, that's certainly fine to have that 24 it will not be an occupied unit, it's only for 25 sales -- leasing and marketing purposes. Page 204 1 MR. HAIZEL: Mr.

o, and if that needs to 23 be a restriction, that's certainly fine to have that 24 it will not be an occupied unit, it's only for 25 sales -- leasing and marketing purposes. Page 204 1 MR. HAIZEL: Mr. Chair, I would 2 recommend that that be included. 3 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Deed restricted. 4 Yes, we'll -- 5 MR. HAIZEL: Thank you. 6 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: -- make that a 7 condition. 8 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Mr. Chair, can 9 I -- 10 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Council President 11 Rutherford. 12 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: I would like 13 to follow back up to the parking. So it's my 14 understanding that there are no restrictions with 15 regard to usage of the den as a bedroom and there is 16 -- there are no assigned visitor parking, so visitor 17 spots could be used by residents and there is an 18 additional fee for the parking. I think the 19 combination of those three things is -- 20 MR. APPEL: I'm not sure, did -- who 21 represented that there was an additional fee? 22 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: So the parking 23 is included with the rent? 24 MR. KLEIN: Yes. 25 MR. APPEL: Yes. Page 205 1 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Okay, so I 2 missed that. Sorry. Relax. Take a deep breath. I 3 think everybody in here is human. 4 So there is -- the parking is included 5 in the rent. 6 MR. APPEL: That's what I think Mr. 7 Hoffman had said. 8 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: And so those 9 tandem spots, so if you have a two-bedroom or a 10 three-bedroom, you will get two spots included with 11 your rent; is that right? 12 MR. APPEL: Those would be the normal 13 connection -- I'm sorry. Those would be the normal 14 connection for the tandem stalls. 15 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: All right, I 16 still think that there's some concern, and it's not 17 that this happens in other municipalities, it 18 happens here, we have a property in town where folks 19 don't pay for parking, they park on the street. If 20 there are additional cars, instead of paying the 21 additional fee and if those visitor spots are not 22 clearly marked or restricted, residents may choose 23 to park in those visitor spots, which could cause 24 additional, you know, issues for folks that are 25 visiting, force them to park on the street or park

53 (Pages 206 to 209) Page 206 1 far away, which, you know, isn't ideal, so if that 2 could be addressed, I think it should be addressed 3 beforehand. And that's an easy fix, just designate 4 a number of spots as visitor parking spots. 5 MR. APPEL: We will look at that with 6 the site engineer. 7 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Thank you. 8 Yeah, I think that's the, I think we are going to 9 end up with enforcement issues and other issues if 10 -- if the parking is not better regulated. 11 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you, Council 12 President. Mr. Klein. 13 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Thank you, 14 Chair. 15 MR. KLEIN: Can you -- for next time, 16 can you calculate the -- based on the number of 17 parking spaces you have and based on a den being a 18 bedroom, figure out if you still meet RSIS if every 19 den was used as a bedroom? So a one with a den is a 20 two, a one only is a one, two with a den is a three, 21 a three with a den -- you know what I mean? And do 22 the math. Maybe you're close overall. 23 MR. APPEL: Yeah, we haven't done that 24 and -- 25 MR. KLEIN: And then it's not an Page 207 1 issue, right, Mr. Haizel -- 2 MS. McGOVERN: Right. 3 MR. KLEIN: -- if they met that 4 number? 5 MR. HAIZEL: Right. 6 MR. KLEIN: But then if you do, then 7 you're going to have to do some restrictions. I 8 mean, do you have archways and -- in your dens or 9 interior -- 10 MR. APPEL: Usually it's not a door, 11 it's just -- 12 MR. KLEIN: Right -- 13 MR. APPEL: -- an open area. 14 MR. KLEIN: -- and is it an interior 15 area so you don't have lights, nobody wants to 16 sleep in a room like that, or... 17 MR. APPEL: They're usually interior. 18 MR. KLEIN: Yeah. 19 MR. APPEL: They're not well suited to 20 bedrooms but -- 21 MR. KLEIN: Right, they're too short 22 to put a bed in maybe or something. 23 MR. APPEL: But I didn't know whether 24 -- there was no -- nothing either ordinance-wise or 25 parking reason that I thought to restrict it so I Page 208 1 didn't -- it didn't seem like a restriction. 2 MR. KLEIN: Right. 3 MR. ALPER: I do -- 4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Wait, wait. Mr. 5 Alper. 6 MR. ALPER: I do think we want to find 7 a way to discourage the use and not have dens used 8 as bedrooms. I think if dens are used as bedrooms 9 in our economy, then every two-bedroom plus a den is 10 really a three-bedroom, every three-bedroom plus a 11 den is then a four-bedroom use. 12 MR. APPEL: They're

think if dens are used as bedrooms 9 in our economy, then every two-bedroom plus a den is 10 really a three-bedroom, every three-bedroom plus a 11 den is then a four-bedroom use. 12 MR. APPEL: They're just not -- 13 they're just -- most of them are windowless and 14 they're just not well suited to be a bedroom, other 15 than something, you know, temporary, interim, for an 16 overnight guest or something like that. 17 MR. ALPER: Can we put that as a 18 condition or... 19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Yeah. All right, 20 Mr. Appel, you testified that you're not considering 21 four bedrooms at the moment. Does that mean you're 22 not considering four bedrooms or at the moment? I 23 want to be clear about what we're talking about. 24 MR. APPEL: So -- so what you're 25 saying is that a three-bedroom plus den -- Page 209 1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Well, no, you said 2 -- somebody asked "Are you considering four 3 bedrooms?" You said "No, at this time, we're not 4 considering four bedrooms." 5 MR. APPEL: Oh. There's no -- not on 6 the plans, it was not under consideration. 7 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: So there will be no 8 four bedrooms. 9 MR. APPEL: Correct. 10 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay, so we can put 11 that in there, that's good. Thank you. 12 Now, the clubhouse, you will have 469 13 units. Will the clubhouse pool and amenities be 14 large enough to be used by the population in this 15 complex? 16 MR. APPEL: Usually what we find is, 17 in most cases, these spaces are way underutilized 18 and that's the problem. We feel it's right sized 19 for this. It's a large clubhouse, but we feel we 20 have the right spaces. 21 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay. Thank you. 22 MR. CARDOZA: I have a few questions, 23 Mr. Chairman. 24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Mr. Cardoza. 25 MR. CARDOZA: Thank you. Following

54 (Pages 210 to 213) Page 210 1 up, you mentioned bike racks. I just want to be 2 sure when you come back to us that you've had a 3 chance to really look at bike racks. While a pool 4 might be unutilized, we have a building in town, 5 600-plus unit, 634, I believe; the bike storage is 6 just in one room and it's insufficient. I think 7 with this, you know, site, you're going to have a -- 8 MR. KLEIN: 634-unit building? 9 MR. CARDOZA: My apologies. I'm 10 misstating it. 11 MAYOR McCARTNEY: 300. 12 MR. CARDOZA: 300. 13 (Multiple speakers at once) 14 MR. CARDOZA: Well, the bike storage 15 is insufficient. 16 MR. KLEIN: Right. 17 MR. CARDOZA: What you're going to get 18 with this site is, you know, it's in the woods, 19 right? And you're going to have these long -- what 20 should I say -- roads. I would expect people want 21 to ride their bikes. I mean, we had the question 22 about possibly bike lanes -- 23 (Many members of the public speaking to each 24 out - court reporter advises she could not hear Mr. 25 Cardoza.) Page 211 1 MR. CARDOZA: My apologies. I would 2 say, you know, when you have a chance, really look 3 at the -- at the bike storage -- 4 MR. APPEL: We will -- 5 MR. CARDOZA: -- make sure that's 6 sufficient. 7 MR. APPEL: We will -- we will re-look 8 at that. 9 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. The -- a question 10 about the windows. Are those all fixed; is there no 11 opportunity for -- what's the possibility of airflow 12 if people want to crack the windows? 13 MR. APPEL: We're -- we're -- we're 14 assuming that the units will have operable windows. 15 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. You mentioned, 16 you know, amenities, and I know a lot of this is 17 still in the works, but you mentioned -- you said 18 for the most part, a lot of these amenity spaces 19 would be lounges and I saw that they were, you know, 20 kind of packed into corners and I'm just hoping that 21 there will be some imagination when it comes to 22 amenity spaces, theater rooms, music rooms. 23 MR. APPEL: Are you talking about in 24 the apartments or are you talking -- 25 MR. CARDOZA: In the -- yeah, in the Page 212 1 apartment buildings. 2 MR. APPEL: So the apartment buildings 3 A, B and C will not have those type of spaces. 4 MR. CARDOZA: Okay, so D -- 5 MR. APPEL: D will and the clubhouse 6 will have those shared amenities. 7 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. 8 MR. APPEL: So the idea here was, 9 rather than have lots of

ype of spaces. 4 MR. CARDOZA: Okay, so D -- 5 MR. APPEL: D will and the clubhouse 6 will have those shared amenities. 7 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. 8 MR. APPEL: So the idea here was, 9 rather than have lots of spaces in the buildings, D 10 has extra amenities, but A, B and C had just small 11 lounges and then they, you know, the clubhouse is 12 the community amenity, and this is a large building 13 -- 14 MR. CARDOZA: Yeah. 15 MR. APPEAL: -- it's got a lot of 16 really neat, special spaces. 17 MR. CARDOZA: And you said, with the 18 clubhouse, you were still working out the specific 19 uses, especially with the children's area? 20 MR. APPEL: Well, we -- we have -- we 21 have a bunch of spaces that are well programmed in 22 here, but what I was mentioning is that this is all 23 in flux because it responds to what the needs are of 24 the residents, and so some of these spaces may get 25 repurposed over time but -- Page 213 1 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. And you have no 2 plans -- so you have the back patio, right? And we 3 spoke about that for Building D, back patio. Did 4 you say that was closed? 5 MR. APPEL: You're talking about in 6 the -- you're talking about in the clubhouse? 7 MR. CARDOZA: D, leading to the 8 ridgeline. 9 MR. APPEL: Oh, that back patio? 10 MR. CARDOZA: Yeah. 11 MR. APPEL: You're talking about off 12 the gym? 13 MR. CARDOZA: Yes. 14 MR. APPEL: That's not enclosed. 15 MR. CARDOZA: No? Okay. 16 MR. APPEL: That's just -- that's 17 open. 18 MR. CARDOZA: All right. And so -- I 19 guess, because we also -- we asked questions about 20 the emergency services, being able to get to the 21 back, we asked questions about, you know, potential 22 paving. Are we imagining that people aren't just 23 going to use, you know, the space between the 24 ridgeline and the deer fence as just a backyard and 25 move about there?

55 (Pages 214 to 217) Page 214 1 MR. APPEL: I mean, I think people 2 can -- 3 MR. CARDOZA: So no restrictions. 4 MR. APPEL: -- walk back there -- 5 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. 6 MR. APPEL: -- but there are so many 7 other well-defined places to be, I would think 8 there's a lot of nicer and better program spaces for 9 them to go to. 10 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. You have no plans 11 for any outdoor grills anywhere, do you? Did you 12 mark those? 13 MR. APPEL: These could be placed, 14 there could be outdoor grills. There are special 15 grills that are permitted on a, let's say on an 16 outdoor terrace, not individual but a common 17 terrace, as well as possibly at the clubhouse, there 18 may be a grilling area that's, uh, that's included 19 as well. 20 MR. CARDOZA: And it will not be sky 21 terrace in Building -- on Building D? 22 MR. APPEL: It probably wouldn't be up 23 there, it would probably be on -- the terrace 24 between the two buildings is probably the more 25 appropriate place for that -- Page 215 1 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. 2 MR. APPEL: -- but I think either 3 place can accommodate. They have special grills 4 that are non-flare grills that are acceptable to put 5 onto public, you know, terraces like that. 6 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. So it's something 7 you're considering or not considering? 8 MR. APPEL: I think that would be a 9 reasonable thing -- 10 MR. CARDOZA: Okay. 11 MR. APPEL: -- as a passive amenity. 12 MR. CARDOZA: No, if you are, I just 13 want to include it in when you come back. That's 14 all. 15 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Vice- 16 Chairman Guarino. 17 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: Last question. 18 I have a quick question about the clubhouse and the 19 facilities, stuff like that. Will the clubhouse, 20 tennis courts and the pool, will it be accessible to 21 West Essex Highlands residents 1 and 2? Or it's 22 just going to be for the apartment? 23 MR. APPEL: This is just for this 24 community. 25 VICE-CHAIRMAN GUARINO: It's just for Page 216 1 the rental units. 2 MR. APPEL: Correct. 3 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Council 4 President. 5 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Mr. Chair, 6 thank you. I did want to ask Mr. Anderson a follow- 7 up question if it's okay. 8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: (Chairman nods.) 9 COUNCILMAN RUTHERFORD: Mr. Anderson, 10 with regard to sidewalks, the slope exiting -- going 11 down toward Warner, is that ADA or FHA compliant? 12 Is that a steep slope? Is that able --