August 14, 2024 Planning Board Special Meeting Transcript - WEHI

MS. PEARSON: That's fine, but can you 13 make that report public for public consumption, and 14 why not? 15 MR. PLOCKER: I don't have an answer 16 for that now. Thank you. 17 MS. PEARSON: Okay. So Mr. Appel, 18 following up on how this -- I just want to touch 19 base on what you said about the rock, thin in some 20 areas. Even though it's a perfect place to put a 21 building, the ideal place to put a building, how 22 could this fractured rock condition, after removing 23 roughly 5904 trees and while refusing to comply with 24 the most current and more strict stormwater 25 management rules that all major developments have to Page 57 1 MR. APPEL: There's -- there will be a 2 structural engineer that will be responsible for the 3 design of the foundations, in accordance with the 4 geotechnical exploration, and that is typically 5 what's done. That's what's done on every project. 6 MS. PEARSON: No answer. Thank you. 7 (Applause by members of the public) 8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Welcome. Please 9 state your name for the record and spell your last 10 name, please. 11 MR. PETER GUARINO: My name is Peter 12 Guarino, G-U-A-R-I-N-O. 13 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You have the floor, 14 sir. 15 MR. PETER GUARINO: Okay. Question: 16 My understanding, and if you can confirm, is that 17 you're proposing a kennel, a dog kennel? 18 MR. APPEL: There is a -- there is a 19 building that is -- that is going to be for dog 20 care, correct. 21 MR. PETER GUARINO: Okay. Is it 22 available to the public? 23 MR. APPEL: I don't have details on 24 the operation of that, only that the -- that the 25 building was placed and it's available for -- for

16 (Pages 58 to 61)16 (Pages 58 to 61) Page 58 1 residents. 2 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: (Inaudible) 3 it's not available. 4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, please. 5 Thank you. Ma'am, ma'am, ma'am, I'm asking you to 6 -- thank you. 7 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: Okay. 8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Go right ahead, sir. 9 MR. PETER GUARINO: Do you know how 10 big the kennel is where you propose it? 11 (Pause) 12 MR. APPEL: The current footprint of 13 the building is 50 feet by 24, so that's 1200 square 14 feet times two stories. 15 MR. PETER GUARINO: Two stories. 16 Okay. And if I remember correctly, did you say that 17 that was also part of the maintenance building? 18 MR. APPEL: No, it's next to the 19 maintenance building. 20 MR. PETER GUARINO: It's next to the 21 maintenance building. And what's the proximity of 22 that building to the setback along Avon Drive? 23 (Pause) 24 MR. APPEL: I would not know the 25 setback without looking at the site plan. Page 60 1 about the common amenity deck on the roof of 2 Building D, so that is -- there's exposure toward -- 3 I guess facing easterly, which I guess could be a 4 little bit impacted, you know, where you could see 5 some angled view from Howell, it doesn't directly 6 face Howell, but the exposure toward Howell is maybe 7 around 70 feet in width. So -- now, in addition to 8 this, what was discussed at the prior meeting was 9 that there was desire to put some greenery up on the 10 roof and we thought that was a great idea, 11 suggestion by the Board and we think what that will 12 also do is it will push activity away from the 13 perimeter of that deck, so by having either potted 14 trees or planters there, it will push activity away 15 from the edge of the building, which I think will be 16 helpful with -- with regard to that. 17 MS. MEYEROWTIZ: Will the trees 18 between the building and the cul-de-sac on Howell be 19 torn down and can those be replanted to prevent the 20 noise? 21 MR. APPEL: I -- 22 MS. MEYEROWTIZ: Or can anything else 23 be done to mitigate the noise coming from that 24 rooftop to Howell Drive? 25 MR. APPEL: Well, you gotta remember, Page 59 1 MR. PETER GUARINO: Okay. And I don't 2 know if you can answer this, but having a kennel 3 that may or may not be available to the public, 4 would that not increase traffic flow? 5 MR. APPEL: I couldn't comment on the 6 traffic that's generated from that. 7 MR. PETER GUARINO: All

a kennel 3 that may or may not be available to the public, 4 would that not increase traffic flow? 5 MR. APPEL: I couldn't comment on the 6 traffic that's generated from that. 7 MR. PETER GUARINO: All right. Thank 8 you. 9 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you, sir. 10 Ma'am, come up. State your name and 11 spell your last name, please. 12 MS. MEYEROWITZ: Nancy Meyerowitz, 13 M-E-Y-E-R-O-W-I-T-Z. I have a couple questions 14 about the roof deck on Building D. 15 First of all, why would you put the 16 roof deck on Building D, which is only a hundred 17 feet from Howell Drive and many of the houses on 18 Howell Drive and much closer than any of the other 19 buildings to other houses, and what will we see from 20 Howell Drive? Will the windows face -- will there 21 be a patio on both buildings; will the windows face 22 Howell Drive? Can you talk a little bit about the 23 roof deck and the impact on Howell Drive? 24 MR. APPEL: So the roof deck is at 25 center of the building so it's -- if you're talking Page 61 1 the closest house to the edge of the closest portion 2 of the building is almost 270 feet. 3 MS. MEYEROWITZ: I thought it was 106. 4 MR. APPEL: So that's -- 5 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: Woods? 6 (Many members of the public shout out - 7 indiscernible) 8 MS. MEYEROWTIZ: We're right on the 9 cul-de-sac, I mean, our property touches on the 10 cul-de-sac. 11 (Many members of the public shout out - 12 indiscernible) 13 MR. APPEL: So I don't have the street 14 addresses of the houses, but from the -- the 15 northern edge of Building D, we took measurements to 16 several of the houses that exist, which would be on 17 the northern side of Howell Drive, I guess around 18 where that cul-de-sac is, and those dimensions to 19 the edge of the building are in excess of 300 feet 20 from the -- 21 MS. MEYEROWITZ: Okay, because the 22 documents that are on the website seem to say it was 23 106 feet. 24 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: 106 feet. 25 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: Yeah.

17 (Pages 62 to 65)17 (Pages 62 to 65) Page 62 1 (Many members of the public shout out - 2 indiscernible) 3 MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: Setback is 106 4 on Howell. 5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, you can come 6 up and ask questions. Thank you. 7 MS. MEYEROWITZ: All right, so the 8 last, are there trees coming down between the 9 building and the cul-de-sac and can those be -- 10 MR. APPEL: As far as where the 11 disturbance lines are, that's really a site 12 question, site engineering question. 13 MS. MEYEROWITZ: There are trees 14 coming down. Thank you. 15 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 16 Please come up and state your name and 17 spell your last name, please. 18 MR. DUBOVY: Todd Dubovy, D-U-B-O-V-Y. 19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 20 MR. DUBOVY: 10 Burnett Terrace. I've 21 got a question more for clarification. 22 If a person's involved in a settlement 23 agreement on the prior matter, should not the person 24 who's been involved in the settlement agreement 25 recuse themself from the current matter? Page 64 1 conflict of interest -- 2 MS. McGOVERN: Well, that's not a 3 conflict. It's not considered a conflict. They 4 have no pecuniary interest in this outcome. It is 5 not a conflict here. 6 MR. DUBOVY: I disagree, but that's 7 okay. All right. 8 The other question I've got has to do 9 with street canopy. We're talking about 6,000-plus 10 trees being removed. Has anybody done a -- 11 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Sir, I don't believe 12 he testified -- correct me if I'm wrong, did you 13 testify on tree removal? 14 MR. APPEL: No. 15 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Okay, he didn't 16 testify to tree removal so he can't answer that 17 question, sir. 18 MR. DUBOVY: Anybody else who can? 19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Yes. But not at 20 this moment. 21 MR. DUBOVY: (Indiscernible) 22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: But not at this 23 moment. 24 MR. DUBOVY: Okay. All right. 25 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. Page 63 1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: No. That's a matter 2 of law, not a matter for the -- this applicant and 3 the questioning for them. So I'll give that to the 4 attorney. 5 MS. McGOVERN: No, not in this case. 6 The Planning Board is composed of people that are in 7 government, the mayor, Council -- 8 MR. DUBOVY: Right. 9 MS. McGOVERN: -- persons. 10 MR. DUBOVY: Right, but if somebody -- 11 MS. McGOVERN: -- and -- 12 MR. DUBOVY: -- has been involved in 13 the settlement agreement prior to -- 14 MS. McGOVERN: It's anticipated that's 15

persons. 10 MR. DUBOVY: Right, but if somebody -- 11 MS. McGOVERN: -- and -- 12 MR. DUBOVY: -- has been involved in 13 the settlement agreement prior to -- 14 MS. McGOVERN: It's anticipated that's 15 part of being on the Planning Board. This is not 16 Zoning Board. Zoning Board has no members of the 17 governing body -- 18 MR. DUBOVY: Right. 19 MS. McGOVERN: -- involved in it. By 20 statute, governing body members are part of the 21 Planning Board. This is -- this is a common thing. 22 MR. DUBOVY: So the government 23 employees -- 24 MS. McGOVERN: It's an -- 25 MR. DUBOVY: -- or officials can have a Page 65 1 MR. DUBOVY: Thank you. 2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 3 Come up, state your name and spell your 4 last name for the record, please. 5 MS. RUDIN: Good evening. Joyce 6 Rudin, R-U-D-I-N. 7 Mr. Appel, what did you do as the 8 architect of this project to accommodate affordable 9 housing tenants? 10 MR. APPEL: When you say what did I 11 do, I included the requisite amount of affordable 12 units and dispersed them among all the buildings. 13 MS. RUDIN: Were you directed by the 14 applicant in any particular way in terms of this 15 particular population? 16 MR. APPEL: I don't understand what 17 you're -- what you're asking. 18 MS. RUDIN: Okay, I'll move on. 19 Do you know what the 2023 income limits 20 are for the affordable housing tenants in Essex 21 County? 22 MR. APPEL: I don't -- I do not. 23 MS. RUDIN: Okay, can I state what 24 that is? 25 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: No.

18 (Pages 66 to 69)18 (Pages 66 to 69) Page 66 1 MS. RUDIN: All right. 2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 3 MS. RUDIN: Do you believe that a 4 substantial portion of the very low and low -- 5 low-income tenants who earn, some of them, under 6 $26,000, will have their own vehicle? 7 MR. APPEL: Couldn't -- I couldn't 8 opine on that. 9 MS. RUDIN: Okay. If they do not have 10 their own vehicle because they are very low income, 11 what accommodations will there be for these people 12 for access to public transportation? 13 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: He didn't testify to 14 that. He didn't testify to that. 15 MR. APPEL: It's not -- not part of my 16 responsibility on the project. 17 MS. RUDIN: So you're -- when you are 18 building for low-income tenants, there is no 19 consideration to the fact that they may need access 20 to public transportation; is that correct? 21 MR. APPEL: That -- 22 MR. PLOCKER: That's outside of Mr. 23 Appel's expertise. 24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: That's outside of 25 his testimony, ma'am. Page 68 1 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Thank you. 2 Come right up, ma'am. State your name 3 and spell your last name for the record, please. 4 MS. SMALL: My name is Susan Small, I 5 live at 22 Fowler Drive in the Highlands, and I want 6 to submit for the Planning Board a picture of the 7 property -- my property and what the environment is, 8 the natural environment is behind my unit. It also 9 extends to others all along the rear of the street 10 that I am on and that's Fowler Drive. I went to the 11 Planning Board -- don't -- 12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 13 MS. SMALL: -- interrupt me, please. 14 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Well -- 15 MS. SMALL: I went to the Planning 16 Board -- 17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, I want you to 18 listen for a moment. The other people in this room 19 respect you, as we do. You have to respect them and 20 the process -- ma'am -- 21 MS. SMALL: What did I just say that 22 bothered you? 23 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Listen. It's a 24 process. You're going outside the process. You're 25 preventing the other people from asking questions Page 67 1 MS. RUDIN: Do you know what the 2 furthest walk is from the high elevation -- 3 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Excuse me. Ladies 4 and gentlemen, we're trying to hear the questions. 5 We respect you, please respect the young lady who's 6 speaking. 7 MS. RUDIN: Thank you so much. 8 (Public members shout out - indiscernible) 9 MS. RUDIN: Do you know the

rying to hear the questions. 5 We respect you, please respect the young lady who's 6 speaking. 7 MS. RUDIN: Thank you so much. 8 (Public members shout out - indiscernible) 9 MS. RUDIN: Do you know the distance 10 from the highest or furthest point in this 11 development to the closest bus stop? 12 MR. APPEL: I do not. 13 MS. RUDIN: Do you know how much of 14 the walking is not accommodated by sidewalks? 15 MR. APPEL: That's more of a site 16 question. 17 MS. RUDIN: Okay. Sidewalks are not 18 part of your -- you do not cover sidewalks? As an 19 architect when you're designing, you don't think in 20 terms of where the sidewalks will be placed? 21 MR. APPEL: The discipline, it's 22 delineated on the site drawings, not the 23 architectural drawings. 24 MS. RUDIN: All right. Okay. Thank 25 you so much. Page 69 1 that are relevant. The applicant has provided an 2 expert and you are now asked to ask them questions 3 about their testimony. There is time under the law 4 in the future of this application to make public 5 comment. I'm going to ask you that you respect the 6 process, as we respect you and ask him questions of 7 his testimony -- 8 MS. SMALL: Yes. 9 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: -- at this time, 10 please. 11 MS. SMALL: Yes. Okay, the first 12 thing. I came to the Planning Board to look at the 13 plans. I was not allowed to, I was told they're not 14 available, they're only available to the Planning 15 Board. The person who I spoke with was rushing me 16 out because she had to go to a meeting. I was very 17 respectful of her and she said to me "If you want to 18 submit this picture and get it stamped and submit it 19 for the Planning Board to have as information, you 20 have to go to the Planning Board," she wrote a 21 little note when your meeting was and that I should 22 go and present it here and now. Do you want me to 23 take an oath of honesty on a Bible to tell you -- 24 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 25 MS. SMALL: -- that that's the truth?

19 (Pages 70 to 73)19 (Pages 70 to 73) Page 70 1 So I am coming here, as I was directed to do, I left 2 very cordially from the planning department and came 3 here to do what I was instructed to do. I want to 4 submit the picture for every -- the Planning Board 5 has to be able to see things and know what other 6 people see. This is an exchange of ideas. You 7 can't ask a question of someone who doesn't give 8 answers. I've been sitting here the last meeting 9 and this meeting and you can't ask questions if you 10 haven't been able to look at a map. So the Planning 11 Board are all volunteers, these are people who I 12 presume have a naturalistic interest in the best 13 things for the community and they should be able to 14 hear and to see the things that the community has to 15 offer. 16 NIMBY doesn't exist anymore, "not in my 17 backyard." The attitude toward the people is that 18 they have an investigated interest in not wanting 19 anything to happen -- 20 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 21 MS. SMALL: -- when they have -- 22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 23 MS. SMALL: -- a vested interest in 24 wanting to make money. 25 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, I will -- Page 72 1 questions of people who don't answer. 2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, let her -- 3 MS. SMALL: You shouldn't sit here and 4 waste your time. 5 MS. McGOVERN: I have to finish my 6 comment. 7 MS. SMALL: Okay. 8 MS. McGOVERN: We're taking questions 9 from the architect -- 10 MS. SMALL: Um-hum. 11 MS. McGOVERN: -- to the architect. 12 MS. SMALL: Um-hum. 13 MS. McGOVERN: If what you are 14 submitting has to do with laying a foundation for a 15 question that you want to ask the architect, then 16 okay, but if you are submitting a photograph that 17 you want to tell the Board about, which would be 18 public comment, which is coming at the end, then 19 it's not the appropriate time to accept the exhibit. 20 So is this a document you have -- 21 MS. SMALL: I have -- 22 MS. McGOVERN: -- going to -- 23 MS. SMALL: I have a question of the 24 Planning Board. Are you sincerely interested in 25 accommodating a balance of power between the Page 71 1 now, listen to me, please. I will direct the zoning 2 official to make that available to you tomorrow at a 3 reasonable time. You can see the plan tomorrow at a 4 reasonable time. Let -- you spoke, let me speak. 5 I'm going to ask the attorney if this is presentable 6 to the Board and

to you tomorrow at a 3 reasonable time. You can see the plan tomorrow at a 4 reasonable time. Let -- you spoke, let me speak. 5 I'm going to ask the attorney if this is presentable 6 to the Board and if it has relevance in this 7 application. 8 MS. SMALL: Well -- 9 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 10 MS. SMALL: -- I'm sorry, I'm not 11 available tomorrow. May I come in -- 12 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Then -- 13 MS. SMALL: -- on Friday and look? 14 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Then I am going to 15 ask you -- the zoning official says yes, Friday 16 morning. Contact the official tomorrow at 9:00 and 17 they will make a time for you on Friday morning -- 18 MS. SMALL: Okay. 19 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: -- that is amenable. 20 I am going to ask our attorney if this is reasonable 21 for the Board to see associated with this 22 application. 23 MS. McGOVERN: So right now, we're 24 only taking questions about the -- 25 MS. SMALL: Well, you can't ask Page 73 1 citizens and the government executive and the 2 landowners who want to build? 3 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 4 MS. SMALL: There is an imbalance of 5 power here. 6 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 7 MS. SMALL: I see how you -- how you 8 treat everybody -- 9 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 10 MS. SMALL: -- and that's antagonism 11 on your part. I didn't come here to antagonize. I 12 came here to try to inform the Planning Board, I 13 came to the town Board to look at the plans -- 14 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 15 MS. SMALL: -- and now I have to make 16 an appointment to see the plans? 17 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 18 MS. SMALL: Why wasn't it open to me? 19 I pay taxes here. 20 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, we want it 21 open to you -- I'm directing. 22 (Applause by members of the public) 23 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Please don't clap. 24 MS. SMALL: I like the claps, it makes 25 me feel encouraged, not that I'm crazy. I'm not

20 (Pages 74 to 77)20 (Pages 74 to 77) Page 74 1 angry with you -- 2 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: We're not angry with 3 you. 4 MS. SMALL: -- I'm frustrated. 5 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: I want to -- 6 MS. SMALL: People have a right to ask 7 the questions. They're asking -- 8 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 9 MS. SMALL: -- the minutia questions. 10 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 11 MS. SMALL: It's like arguing how many 12 angels there are on the head of a pin. 13 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am, I think -- I 14 think for that one, you're going to have to ask 15 Avogadro, he's got a number. 16 MS. SMALL: That you can't meet my 17 needs. 18 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 19 MS. SMALL: You should vol -- you 20 should not volunteer if you're being held captive. 21 You have a right to -- 22 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 23 MS. SMALL: Express your opinion as a 24 whole person -- 25 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- Page 76 1 questions, about what's seen on Howell Drive. Some 2 people live on the cul-de-sac, some people live 3 directly below this building and I think it's very 4 important to all of us to get the answers and maybe 5 everyone -- maybe everyone just needs to come and 6 see it and see what we're talking about and see the 7 slope and that and how Howell Drive wraps, and that 8 leads into my first and second question. 9 My first question is what plans you 10 have for Building D and its lights and whether or 11 not it will be increasing our light pollution. I 12 personally will be living below Building D on Howell 13 Drive, but I have neighbors here who will be living 14 directly across from Building D on Howell Drive. 15 Secondly, last week, we -- we all lost 16 power on Howell Drive, some lost power for the 17 entire day. What plans do you have for 500 homes in 18 the case of an event where power outages do occur, 19 and more and more regularly, it seems? Are we going 20 to have to listen to huge, noisy generators, are you 21 going to have generators, just out of curiosity? 22 And one other statement just because it 23 was put into the record, Exhibit D of the 24 settlement, the kennel's available to the public, as 25 per Paragraph 6. Page 75 1 MS. SMALL: -- as a resident and as a 2 volunteer who wants to work for the betterment of 3 your community -- 4 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: Ma'am -- 5 MS. SMALL: -- including landowners 6 who want to use their land. 7 CHAIRMAN BAGOFF: You're taking the 8 time of the other people