Transcript 10 17 24 WO BOA ZB 24 06 PSEG Full size

Page 11 1 first witness this evening, I would like to call Mr. 2 Michael Blake, our civil engineer. 3 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Because it's been a 4 while, would you be kind enough, Mr. Flynn to swear 5 the witness. 6 MR. FLYNN: Sure. 7 8 MICHAEL BLAKE, B-L-A-K-E, having first been duly 9 sworn, testified under his oath as follows: 10 MR. FLYNN: And Mr. Chairman, for the 11 record, I did review, because this is a special 12 meeting, the applicant did renotice. The notice's 13 content was sufficient and it was timely served and 14 published, so the board has continuing jurisdiction 15 over this matter. 16 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Thank you very much and 17 based on the roll call that we took we do have a 18 quorum and can conduct business this evening. 19 Ms. Porter, what witness do you -- he has 20 been recognized as an expert, you don't have to 21 requalify him. 22 MS. PORTER: Great, thank you. So Mr. 23 Blake, having reconfirmed your ability to provide 24 expert testimony in the field of civil engineering, I 25 would like to begin by asking if you were previously

Page 12 1 called and provided expert testimony in the field of 2 civil engineering for this project on September 12. 3 MR. BLAKE: Yes, that's correct. 4 MS. PORTER: And as part of that 5 testimony, you specifically addressed the site design 6 and proposed storm water management system for this 7 site, is that correct? 8 MR. BLAKE: Yes, that's correct. 9 MS. PORTER: And you determined, as part 10 of that testimony, that in order to comply with the 11 storm water management regulations and specifically, 12 the green infrastructure requirements, since the site 13 is considered a major development and must address 14 water quantity, that the number and location of storm 15 water management bioretention basins and under drains 16 were necessary for this project, is that correct? 17 MR. BLAKE: Yes, that's correct. 18 MS. PORTER: Okay, and you also testified 19 regarding the replacement fence and the existing 20 condition of that fence and brick pillars and the 21 need to bring that site into compliance with current 22 electrical code and PSE&G requirements, is that 23 correct? 24 MR. BLAKE: Yes. 25 MS. PORTER: Thank you. And finally, you

Page 13 1 testified as to why the site driveway was being 2 reconfigured to better accommodate turning situations 3 from either direction on Mount Pleasant Avenue, is 4 that correct? 5 MR. BLAKE: Yes, that is correct. 6 MS. PORTER: Thank you. Now, specific to 7 the testimony I just described that you previously 8 provided, you addressed certain tree removal that 9 would be required in connection with that proposed 10 site design, is that correct? 11 MR. BLAKE: Yes, that is correct. 12 MS. PORTER: And did you attend all other 13 meetings in connection with this application? 14 MR. BLAKE: Yes, I did. 15 MS. PORTER: And did you hear the 16 testimony of all other witnesses for PSE&G for this 17 application? 18 MR. BLAKE: Yes, that is correct. 19 MS. PORTER: And did you hear questions 20 asked by Mr. Malanga and other members of the public 21 regarding PSE&G's application and specifically 22 relating to tree removal? 23 MR. BLAKE: Yes, I did hear all those. 24 MS. PORTER: So, since the last meeting, 25 have you had any opportunity to address or further

Page 14 1 consider those questions or comments specific to the 2 trees and preservation of the trees on the site? 3 MR. BLAKE: Oh, yes, so one of the things 4 that we did is we decided to schedule a site visit 5 meeting. We held something on September 30 of this 6 year. Myself and several of the other members of the 7 project team had decided to go over the project's 8 current design. We also, you know, part of the team 9 that was there included our electrical engineer, 10 project manager, planner, permitting manager, 11 landscape architect, and then PSE&G also brought 12 their, one of their vegetation management supervisors 13 as well as one of their security personnel. 14 MS. PORTER: Great. And the individual 15 that came for PSE&G's vegetation management, he is a 16 qualified tree expert? 17 MR. BLAKE: As far as I know, that is 18 what I've been told, yes. 19 MS. PORTER: Okay, so you indicated it was 20 the electrical engineer, project manager, planner, 21 permitting -- planner and permitting manager, 22 landscape architect, and an individual from 23 vegetation management. 24 MR. BLAKE: Correct. 25 MS. PORTER: Among others from corporate

Page 15 1 security. 2 MR. BLAKE: Yes, there was other people 3 there as well, but in general that was kind of the 4 core team. 5 MS. PORTER: Got it. And during that site 6 visit, what specifically did you focus on in terms of 7 the site? 8 MR. BLAKE: I mean, we kind of generally 9 looked at some equipment where the site is, but our 10 main focus was in the areas where the trees are 11 proposed to be removed, where a lot of Mr. Malanga 12 and the other people who've questioned the tree 13 removal, we went there to kind of revisit those trees 14 to see how we can, how it fit in with our design. 15 Some people hadn't been there for a while since the 16 design has progressed. I personally had never been 17 there so that was a good chance for me to visit, only 18 people from my team had been there. But, in general, 19 we kind of went over the lay of the land, we had 20 drawings in front of us to kind of give us a visual 21 picture of where the bioretention basins are, the 22 switch gear, the access drive, and where it was in 23 relation to what trees were in question. We looked 24 at, as far as, is there any other place we could put 25 the bioretention? I mean the site doesn't drain or

Page 16 1 slope very much, so we really had to co-locate it in 2 an area where that was draining downhill, that was 3 kind of our best option where that was. 4 As far as access to the site, you know, 5 the existing drive kind of goes off towards the west 6 when you pull in and we need more of a straight 7 access into the site. The switch gear is a pretty 8 large building; now granted, it will come in multiple 9 pieces, but we needed to provide easy access for 10 those heavy halls. Additionally, there is existing 11 equipment like, there is a transformer on that side, 12 which, with the new equipment and everything the way 13 it's considered, the access to that portion of the 14 sub would be better if it was a straight on access. 15 Additionally, we kind of walked the fence 16 line, I can't say that I walked the entire length, 17 but we walked a good portion of it, looked at the 18 state of it, what kind of conditions it was in, noted 19 where there was some bad areas, pillars, the brick 20 pillars, saw the existing condition of those. 21 MS. PORTER: And what was that condition 22 that you observed? 23 MR. BLAKE: There was a lot of cracks, a 24 lot of, there was parts where there was missing 25 bricks or chunks out of the brick, I know that a lot

Page 17 1 of the portions of the wrought iron fence were 2 pretty, I would say kind of rusted, you know, it 3 wasn't in like great shape in my opinion. It just 4 didn't seem like they were something that would be 5 reusable. 6 And then finally, we had the discussion 7 as a group but in particular I was talking with both 8 the landscape architect which is John Futey, and then 9 DS&S Vegetation Management Supervisor, his name is 10 Jay Kaplan. We kind of went over their opinions on 11 trees, it's good to kind of have both their 12 perspective. Jay's kind of the person who maintains 13 the trees, and he deals with the trees from PSE&G, 14 deals with them in the right of way, and you 15 typically don't deal with trees in a substation, but 16 within proximity of substations, and so he can, he 17 knows the rules and the requirements and distances 18 and the amount of tree limbs that have to be cut down 19 in order to meet spacing requirements for it. So, it 20 was good to have both of them there to kind of talk 21 things through and we went through some of the 22 conditions of the trees and looked at the bigger ones 23 that we talked about, or their ways to preserve them 24 or work around, work the design around them. 25 MS. PORTER: And ultimately, what were the

Page 18 1 results of that discussion, did you have the ability 2 based on that discussion to make modifications to the 3 design, or did you ultimately reach another 4 conclusion after going over the plans and reviewing 5 documents as you just indicated? 6 CHAIRMAN NEUER: Before you answer, Mr. 7 Blake, Ms. Porter although the rules of evidence are 8 not strictly enforced, my concern is whether or not 9 Mr. Blake will be stating or repeating things told to 10 him that was purportedly an expert and we can't go 11 that far down that rabbit hole. 12 MS. PORTER: I would limit his testimony, 13 so Mr. Blake I appreciate where Mr. Neuer is going. 14 So, you can't say, it's hear say for you to state in 15 the record essentially what other individuals told 16 you without the benefit of them being present. I 17 would appreciate if you could discuss any 18 conversations that you had specifically with Mr. 19 Futey as he will also be testifying tonight in terms 20 of your analysis with respect to the design, and 21 specific to your civil engineering background. 22 MR. BLAKE: Yeah, I mean, what I talk 23 specifically with them was just kind of getting my 24 understanding of the situation with the trees, but as 25 far as the storm water management I mean, I did point

Page 19 1 out to several people in the group the approximate 2 locations of bioretention, I gave them kind of a 3 visual definition, tried to point out exactly where 4 the start and stop of the bioretentions were based on 5 the drawings that were in front of me, and then you 6 know -- 7 MS. PORTER: And then before you go on, 8 sticking with that theme in terms of the bioretention 9 basin, so you had previously testified as we 10 indicated earlier that essentially the location of 11 those were fixed in terms of you had done an analysis 12 where they would necessarily need to be situated in 13 order to comply with the green infrastructure 14 requirements, is that correct? 15 MR. BLAKE: Yeah, that's correct. So 16 when I got back to Kansas City, you know, I went back 17 in to the, both the West Orange storm water ordinance 18 and the administrative code, I looked at some of the 19 options that comes with the design of those 20 bioretentions and spacing requirements and 21 restrictions from staying, providing clearance from 22 the electrical equipment. In my professional 23 opinion, I believe that the bioretention basins are 24 in the best location that they can be. 25 MS. PORTER: And do you know or are you

Page 20 1 aware of whether or not the site could accommodate 2 underground detention? 3 MR. BLAKE: So, in, that was, you know, 4 one of the things that I also looked into, I went 5 back and looked in, you know, the storm water 6 ordinance for West Orange and the New Jersey 7 Administrative Code section 78, and I was not able to 8 find anything about an underground detention or an 9 extended detention without a variance or a waiver. 10 So, as part of that, I reached out to John Hess with 11 CME just to see if there was anything that I was 12 overlooking, just because I wanted another engineer's 13 opinion to see if there was something maybe I wasn't 14 seeing and we kind of came to the same conclusion 15 that without a variance or a waiver, you couldn't do 16 underground detention, and then in addition, the 17 underground detention, the footprint would probably 18 still impact some of the trees. I don't know what 19 the extent of it is, because I haven't designed it. 20 MS. PORTER: So, in terms of your 21 discussion and your review of the West Orange 22 ordinance as it relates to a waiver or a variance, is 23 there an ability under the West Orange ordinance to 24 seek a variance or a waiver? Is there specific 25 language within the code present to allow for that to